Are you gonna get an electric car anytime soon? (Or do you already have one?)

[Leo Enticknap]

I would oppose a per mile tax, admittedly out of self interest: it would penalize those who, through no fault of their own, have no practical choice but to live a long distance from their workplace. Billionaires who live in Bel-Air and work in Hollywood would pay almost nothing, whereas the middle class who have to live out in the Inland Empire and rack up 30-40K miles a year commuting, because housing costs are too high closer to their workplaces, would bear the brunt of taxation for road maintenance.

Taxing gasoline is justified by politicians with the claim that the money is needed to mitigate the environmental damage that tailpipe emissions cause. That money isn't predicated or ringfenced for road maintenance: in the vast majority of states that impose a gas tax, the money goes straight into the state's general fund. In many states, California included, a tiny fraction of the money raised in gas taxes actually goes to road construction and maintenance. A chunk of it is currently being spent on the high speed railroad between Bakersfield and Fresno.

The honest response to the conversion from gas to electric vehicles is to fund all highway infrastructure construction and maintenance from general taxation (income, sales, capital gains, etc.), and stop pretending that gas taxes were in any way ringfenced for that purpose. Everyone needs that highway infrastructure to support their lives, including those who don't own a car and have never learned to drive. The food they buy at the supermarket gets there in a big rig, etc. etc. If the politicians truly believe that EVs are a solution to the pollution problem, then there is no justification for a specific "sin tax" on their use.

[Martin Brooks]

I'll probably be buying the Hyundai Ioniq 6 sedan once it's available in 2023. I live in a co-op that has installed chargers in the garage (although they're still waiting for one part to make them operational), although I'll have to pay to use them whereas if I can find chargers from Electrify America, it's free for the first two years. I was looking at the Ioniq 5 this past year, but at first, the dealers were charging $thousands extra and the trim I wanted wasn't availabled, although now there's deals on the 2022's. The 5 is rated at 305 miles per full charge. The 6 is expected to be rated at about 350 because it's more aerodynamic. At a high speed charger, they both charge to 80% in 18 minutes in fair weather.

Unfortunately, the Hyundais aren't eligible for the Federal rebate because they aren't manufactured in the U.S. Hyundai is building a U.S. factory, but it won't be open until 2025 or so. As my current car is almost 20 years old, I don't want to wait anymore, even though I bet there will be tremendous improvements to EV's over the next five years.

[Leo Enticknap]

That's a bummer. When the VW plant in Chattanooga is fully online, ID4s will become eligible for the rebate, too (as of the 2024 model year, the last I heard). Of all the EVs currently on the market, that one is closest to what I'd be interested in. My game plan is still to run the HR-V for as long as it remains reliable, though: every extra year I hang on, EVs are likely to come down in price and go up in range, reliability, and safety. Thanks to the local crime situation I do want to be able to put my car in the garage overnight, and I need to see the safety record of these battery packs improve before I'd feel comfortable doing that.

We're somewhat of a Honda loyalist family, primarily because there is a dealership only a few blocks from us that has always treated us fairly and reliably (for my wife's family, going back to the 1980s); but the last I knew, Honda does not plan to introduce an EV until an electric version of the CR-V for the 2025 model year. Of all the big automakers, they seem to be the last to enter the EV market.

[Frank Cox]

What do you guys think about hybrid vehicles?

I don't know much (meaning anything at all) about them but I just read this article.

https://auto.howstuffworks.com/ford-escape.htm

I see that the Ford Escape is offered in both a regular hybrid and a plug-in hybrid, too.

[Leo Enticknap]

IMHO, hybrids offer the worst of both worlds: there is both an ICE and an electric powertrain to go wrong (and battery pack to wear out), and likely an insanely complicated transmission to handle switching between the two. You also have the heavier duty, more expensive tires needed to support the bigger weight of the vehicle. Like the African nations that have effectively leapfrogged over landline telecommunications and gone straight from nothing to cellular, I'm not interested in hybrids, and would prefer to hang on to my conventional gas-powered car until it wears out and EVs have gotten at least closer to the point of being a like-for-like replacement.

Another alarm bell in my mind is that the Prius requires premium grade gas (I don't know if this is true of other hybrids) thanks to the smaller, higher compression engine: a former co-worker who has one was constantly complaining about this.

[Frank Cox]

I suppose the counter-argument would be that hybrids are a way to get around the issues of range and refuelling time (and refuelling locations) that come with an electric-only vehicle.

I don't know enough about these things to have a valid opinion but it's my understanding that those are the main issues that are currently holding back mass adoption of electric vehicle technology.

[Harold Hallikainen]

Many years ago (before lithium-based batteries were available and electric cars used lead-acid batteries), I read a discussion of increasing the range of electric vehicles. One method was to attach a trailer with a generator to charge the batteries on long trips. Another approach was a "pusher trailer" that had wheels powered by the internal combustion engine. A bit convoluted. The trailer would only be used on long trips.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

In "Other Lithium Battery News",,,,

[Scott Jentsch]

For those concerned about safety of EVs, this might be interesting to you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zK-VTjTGuk

Running a Mustang Mach-E into a barrier at 40mph in an overlap impact. If you don't want to see everything and cut to the action, the impact portion of the video starts at 30:42.

A "minor" accident is very likely not going to cause a late-model EV to turn into a four-wheeled road flare. Is it possible? Of course, just like it's possible to be killed by your snowblower with less than a gallon of gas in it. Just ask Jay Leno what gasoline can do when it doesn't stay put...

We tend not to think about gasoline and how dangerous it really can be since it's so much a part of our lives. If you really thought about it, how safe do you really feel about the idea of flying down the road at 85 mph while sitting on 16 gallons of highly combustible gasoline among dozens or hundreds of others doing the same?

I did some quick googling, and found this from Autoweek magazine, How Much Should You Worry About EV Fires?:

Researchers from insurance deal site Auto Insurance EZ compiled sales and accident data from the Bureau of Transportation Statistics and the National Transportation Safety Board. The site found that hybrid vehicles had the most fires per 100,000 sales at 3474.5. There were 1529.9 fires per 100k for gas vehicles and just 25.1 fires per 100k sales for electric vehicles.

The hybrid stat above is surprising and concerning, but I guess when you have a vehicle that has both a gas powerplant and a battery system, you've got twice as many ways for things to go badly, and especially so when an electrical spark or other issue is inches away from gallons of gasoline.

I would not be concerned about driving an EV with my family, or with parking it in my garage and charging it unattended. I would, however, make sure that the vehicle performed well in crash tests and has a good track record, and my electrical equipment was installed by a competent electrician and the work inspected by the city. Just as I wouldn't install my own air conditioner, whole-house generator (high electrical loads), or a natural gas furnace, I would want to make sure the work was done properly and safely.

[Leo Enticknap]

We tend not to think about gasoline and how dangerous it really can be since it's so much a part of our lives. If you really thought about it, how safe do you really feel about the idea of flying down the road at 85 mph while sitting on 16 gallons of highly combustible gasoline among dozens or hundreds of others doing the same?

Mankind has, collectively, close to a century and a half of experience and learning to ensure that the combustion remains internal: in other words, that gasoline for automotive use is not ignited anywhere other than in the cylinders. Grounding systems for fuel pumps on forecourts, armored gas tanks, steel and synthetic fuel lines, and even mundane safety measures like not allowing smoking at gas stations have gradually evolved over a very long time, to the point at which gas igniting where and when it isn't supposed to is a very rare event. There were some notable failures along the way, including, infamously, the Ford Pinto scandal.

We don't have anything like that experience in managing the risks associated with very large arrays of lithium ion batteries in moving vehicles. We may decide, as with the use of hydrogen to provide aerostatic lift in airships, that those risks simply can't be managed down to an acceptable level, especially if a fundamentally different battery chemistry that is inherently less risky makes it into mass production. Alternatively, the physical protection and thermal management of these things might advance to the point at which the risk is low enough for 99.99% of the population to consider it acceptable. At the moment, it's high enough to be a significant factor going into my thinking that I'm going to wait at least 2-4 years before contemplating an EV (which I suspect is around the remaining reliable service life of my existing ICE-powered one anyways).

[Jason Speers]

I'm seriously thinking about switching to an electric vehicle for my next ride. The perks of not having to hit up gas stations and cutting down on emissions are too good to ignore. Plus, the few times I've test-driven an EV, the instant power and the quietness of the ride totally won me over.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

Fine. As long as you don't have to drive long distances. If you do, you may have to wait for up to several cars ahead of you while they charge. Here in the USA, the infrastructure for EV's just isn't there yet. Plus, you live where it's very cold in winter. That cold is going to drastically cut your drivable range down. Have to have it towed? It'll be dragged out of it's parking spot, and then up on the back of a tow truck. Need to replace the battery? That's going to cost more than your 5 to 7 year old EV is worth. There is more, but I'll stop here...

[Geoff Jones]

I got a 2024 Hyundai Kona EV (SE trim) in early February.

In the U.S., at the start of the year, the $7,500 federal tax credit was limited to cars made in the U.S. This caused several General Motors cars to lose eligibility, so GM offered a $7,500 discount. Hyundai matched that, offering a $7,500 discount on their EVs. So far, the discount has been renewed each month.

Colorado also offers a $5,000 state tax credit, plus an additional $2,500 for cars with an MSRP below $35k. The SE trim squeeked under that.

The Kona's official range is listed at 200 miles, but mine tends to show about 230 when fully charged. (It calculates the range based on your driving habits.)

I'm using level 1 "trickle-charging" for almost all of my charging. I just plug it into the wall outlet in the garage when I get home. It's very slow. I calculated it to be about 3 full days for 0 to 100%. But that's never my experience. My actual experience is that I drive it around town for my daily and weekly trips and never worry about range. It tends to stay around 60-80%.

Yes, the range varies due to the temperature, the number of passengers, hilly terrain, and the use of the heater, but again, for me it's a non-issue.

If I drove more, I would probably install a level 2 charger, which would provide a full charge in about 5 hours.

A level 3 public charge would get the battery from 10% to 80% in 45 minutes.

The Kona's battery is warrantied for 10 years or 100k miles.

We now have three drivers in our household, so we felt we needed three cars. The Kona is our third.

In my view, it's a no-brainer to have an EV in any household with more than one car. The other car(s) are available for road trips and the EV is prefect for daily commuting and around-town driving.

For one-car households, and for apartment dwellers, the decision is definitely not as simple.


Things I love about it:

• The smooth quiet ride
• The fancy technology (even on the base trim)
• Never stopping for gas
• Never getting an oil change
• Never getting a smog test
• Spending less money per mile
• No tailpipe emissions

Things I dislike about it:

• None so far.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

Things I love about it:............................................... ...............................The truth about it from friends that own them and also used to own them.

• The smooth quiet ride.............................................. .................So was my 2010 Range Rover, but it wasn't reliable!. I had a Ford Expedition for service trips. A Hummer H3 for off road. Both reliable!
• The fancy technology (even on the base trim)........................The Range Rover was also fancy, But it wasn't reliable because of it. Actually less reliable.
• Never stopping for gas............................................... .................But having to stop and pay $12 USD plus at fast chargers to keep going. I had a ~400 mile range.
• Never getting an oil change............................................ ..........You will no doubt still have battery maintenance, and possibly electronics to keep updated.
• Never getting a smog test.............................................. ...........There are no smog tests here in Tennessee. It's only done in 35 States and territories.
• Spending less money per mile.............................................. ..Tell me how that works. You can't accurately determine that until you get rid of the vehicle.
• No tailpipe emissions......................................... ...................... But lots of other pollution from disposing the battery packs and electronics.
• .................................................. .................................................. ...Not to mention mining the lithium to make the batteries, which children are often tasked with.

As a follow up, If you have a seven to ten year old Model S, a new battery pack is 20K usd. More than the resale value of the used car. What is the cost of a replacement battery pack for your Hyundai? How long is the warranty, and how much to extend it? BTW: I was lucky to almost break even on the Land Rover when I sold it, and my wife was the one that drove it most of the time.

[Geoff Jones]

As I mentioned, I never have to stop and plug in for charging, so having to "pay $12 USD plus at a fast charger" isn't an issue for me.

How long is the warranty

The Kona's battery is warrantied for 10 years or 100k miles.

I was born and raised in Tennessee but I got out as soon as I graduated from High School, so the fact that TN doesn't have smog tests isn't really an issue for me.

EV manufacturing certainly has environmental impacts, but any suggestion that those impacts are equal to the impact of a ICE vehicle is a false equivalency perpetuated by the oil and gas industry. The Environmental Impact of EVs vs. Gas Cars is simply not the same.

FYI to anyone out there thinking about buying a Land Rover (or a Tesla, for that matter), be sure and do your research: