Coronavax experiences?

[Randy Stankey]

So whatever the Covid shot made my immune system do, it fought them off.

Your case sounds novel enough that I think you should, at least, report it to your doctor.

How is the virus that give you warts similar enough to Coronavirus that you could get this effect.
Also, consider how sick you got when you received your inoculations. That could be related in some way.

Who knows? You might have stumbled on something that could be important.

I don't know. Maybe your doctor would tell you that they already know about this. Maybe it could be something new that researchers should know about.

[Harold Hallikainen]

I think that was the rare blood clot issue. However "EMA confirms overall benefit-risk remains positive"


https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/as...lots-low-blood

[Shawn M. Martin]

I got the Pfizer. First shot in December hurt, and my arm was sore the next day. I thought the RN had hit bone or something.

I didn't feel the second shot in January (given by the same RN) at all, and had zero side effects after.

[Allan Young]

Here's one for Bobby Henderson...

Oklahoma hospitals deluged by ivermectin overdoses, doctor says

An Oklahoma doctor has said overdoses of the anti-parasitic drug ivermectin, which many believe without evidence can prevent or cure Covid-19, are helping cause delays and problems for rural hospitals and ambulance services struggling to cope with the resurgent pandemic.

Ivermectin is used to kill internal and external parasites in livestock animals and, in smaller doses, in humans.

“There’s a reason you have to have a doctor to get a prescription for this stuff, because it can be dangerous,” Dr Jason McElyea told KFOR, an Oklahoma TV station.

“The [emergency rooms] are so backed up that gunshot victims were having hard times getting to facilities where they can get definitive care and be treated.

“Ambulances are stuck at the hospital waiting for a bed to open so they can take the patient in and they don’t have any, that’s it. If there’s no ambulance to take the call, there’s no ambulance to come to the call.”

McElyea told the Tulsa World a colleague was forced to send one severely ill Covid patient to a hospital in South Dakota, three states away to the north.

“They had sat in a small hospital needing to be in an [intensive care unit] for several days, and that was the closest ICU that was available,” he said.

Oklahoma is among states struggling to cope with a surge in hospitalisations and deaths caused by the Delta virus variant. According to Johns Hopkins University, in the past week Oklahoma has recorded more than 18,400 cases and 189 deaths. The same source puts the death toll in Oklahoma over 8,000, out of more than 647,000 across the US.

The vast majority of US hospitalisations and deaths are among unvaccinated people. Amid opposition to vaccines and public health mandates stoked by Republican politicians, conservative media and disinformation on social media, many have turned to ivermectin.

This week, the influential podcaster Joe Rogan, who has been dismissive of vaccines, announced he had tested positive for Covid and was taking ivermectin.

In Arkansas, the drug was given to inmates at a jail. Louisiana and Washington issued alerts after an increase in calls to poison control centers. Some animal feed supply stores have run out of the drug because of people buying it in its veterinary form.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) cited a case of a man who drank an injectable form of ivermectin intended for cattle. He suffered hallucinations, confusion, tremors and other side effects and was hospitalised for nine days.

McElyea told KFOR: “Growing up in a small town, rural area, we’ve all accidentally been exposed to ivermectin at some time. So it’s something people are familiar with. Because of those accidental sticks, when trying to inoculate cattle, they’re less afraid of it.”

Authorities have tried to debunk claims that animal-strength ivermectin can fight Covid-19.

“Taking large doses of this drug is dangerous and can cause serious harm,” the US Food and Drug Administration warned, adding that the drug can cause nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea, seizures, delirium and death.

The American Medical Association appealed for an “immediate end” to the drug’s use, outside studies seeking to determine if the drug has any use against Covid-19, with federal and state regulators tracking side effects and hospital admissions.

A panel from the National Institutes of Health found “insufficient evidence” for or against using the drug for Covid-19.

In Oklahoma, McElyea said: “Some people taking inappropriate doses have actually put themselves in worse conditions than if they’d caught Covid. The scariest one that I’ve heard of and seen is people coming in with vision loss.

“You have to ask yourself, ‘If I take this medicine, what am I going to do if something bad happens?’ What’s your next step, what’s your back-up plan? If you’re going to take a medicine that could affect your health, do it with a doctor on board.

“It’s not just something you look on the internet for and decide if it’s the right dose.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...id-coronavirus

I have to confess I did had a mobid giggle about gunshot victims having trouble getting treated...

[Marcel Birgelen]

I really try to get into the mind of those people, but it's particularly hard to do so using any kind of logic...

So, you won't take the vaccine, because it's "poison" pushed by "big pharma" and "the government"...

I can, somehow still follow those arguments, as "the government" hasn't always been honest towards the people they serve and big pharma is known for their own set of scandals...

So, that is as far as "logic" goes and then comes the part when all logic that was left, flies out of the window: Instead of taking a COVID-19 shot, you're going to inject yourself with some random drug which is mostly used to kill parasites in horses and cattle? I guess if big pharma can't sell you one or two COVID-19 vaccine shots, they'll happily sell you a bunch of snake oil instead...

[Bobby Henderson]

Here's one for Bobby Henderson...

When I first heard certain people were taking ivermectin in attempts to prevent or cure COVID-19 I busted out laughing hard. What a bunch of fucking idiots.

But now the situation is doing more to get me pissed off. Our hospitals here in Lawton, the ICUs in particular, are beyond full -all thanks to the latest surge of COVID-19 patients, over 90% of which are not vaccinated at all. It's bad enough the hospital staff is overwhelmed with COVID-19 patients. But now they're having to deal with poisoning cases from morons taking toxic doses of livestock worming medicine. That just adds insult to injury. God help anyone who suffers a heart attack, gets in a car accident or experiences some other medical emergency around here. They're going to be in deep trouble. COVID-19 patients aren't the only people dying in this situation.

The sheer lunacy on display is ironic. These anti-vax jerks will vilify doctors and scientists, rejecting their qualified expert opinions and facts. Yet these same assholes will put more stock in the amateur opinion of some fool on a barstool, or some media personality on radio or cable TV, taking those words as the gospel.

I'm ashamed to say I have a cousin who believes in this ivermectin crap. This guy has plenty of other issues and I greatly limit any involvement with him over that. For him, being against COVID-19 vaccines and all for eating the horse paste is par for the course.

I have to confess I did had a mobid giggle about gunshot victims having trouble getting treated...

Many gunshot victims are not criminals. Domestic disputes are a big source of such cases, such as a boyfriend trying to murder his girlfriend. Then you have gang-bangers who like holding pistols sideways, doing more to hit bystanders than the target they intended to shoot.

I really try to get into the mind of those people, but it's particularly hard to do so using any kind of logic...

Many of these folks are not the sharpest knives in the drawer.

[Leo Enticknap]

can, somehow still follow those arguments, as "the government" hasn't always been honest towards the people they serve and big pharma is known for their own set of scandals...

An interviewee on my favorite talk radio show the other day said something like "...I think it's significant that the government, the media, and the medical establishment are all really pushing hard on that third of the population who are...". The presenter then interrupted with "The government, the media, and the medical establishment! That's the unholy freakin' trinity, isn't it? Ask most Americans what institutions they trust least of all, and they'd likely reply with that list. Even lawyers wouldn't make the cut now!"

If there is any truth to that claim, it is because all three institutions have repeatedly lied to us and continue to do so, over the pandemic more than many other issues. When you have Fauci telling us that masks don't do any good at the outset, and then within 2-3 months we're all being forced to wear them, of course we're going to be skeptical of the two of those institutions he represents. And the third aided and abetted his lying. That is just one of many examples.

It's easy to condemn the vaccine skeptical (I make a distinction between vaccine skepticism based on rational reasons, e.g. pregnant women not wanting to take it because no large scale trials on pregnant patients have been done, and anti-vaxxers, who don't want to take it because they buy into David Icke/Alex Jones BS about little green men and 5G nanoreceivers), and I personally believe that the risk/reward tradeoff favors having it, but by calling them idiots and trying to turn them into social outcasts, you will only strengthen that skpeticism and make it harder to persuade the remaining quarter or so of the population to get vaccinated.

[Steve Guttag]

..Fauci telling us that masks don't do any good at the outset...

That was taken way out of context and often put up as excuse for never ever trusting any medical advice on Covid.

When most people think of masks for occupational use, they think of them as a protector to wearer (e.g., if you do drywall work, you wear a mask to not breathe all of that stuff in). What was not understood at the time of the original recommendation was that simple masks would be effective at stopping the wearer from transmitting the virus, if they were infected. It is a different take on the mask than the norm. Furthermore, the type of mask that would be effective for the wearer would be the N95 type, which is only effective if worn properly. As is evidenced by so many people wearing their various masks, proper wear is haphazard at best. And all that is being asked is to cover the nose and mouth yet still there are the "chin-strappers" and the exposed nose types. These are not the types that would properly wear an N95 such that it forms a tight seal around the nose and mouth area.

Furthermore, the last thing the medical community wanted to happen (and it did anyway) was for the demand of N95 masks to skyrocket, thereby deprive the medical people who are required to work around the sick (Covid or otherwise) to not have a supply or have to wait behind people that are just scared and will buy up anything like toilet paper, milk and N95 masks.

Medical advice is going to evolve as data so directs. If one is so easily confused by the change in mask position, they would be confused by most anything too. It is being used as an excuse for stupidity rather than a rational argument against medical advice.

Historically, I don't recall as much animosity or skepticism against the medical community. I'm not saying that there wasn't always a percentage of the population that doesn't trust or simply feels it doesn't need the medical community and there have always been snake oil salesmen to take people's money for non-cures. It has long been established (certainly my entire lifetime and suspect everyone here that reads this) that politicians will say and do anything to get votes, even if promising to do things that they know they have no chance of doing. They'll pay lip-service to anyone. Are their case-in-point exceptions? Sure but if you look at the industry as a whole, they are a pretty slimy bunch but that is nothing new. They have, again, in my lifetime, been on the level of the used-car salesman. Someone you don't trust though some good may come from the relationship.

The change in media is another big change. Back when we had newspapers and few broadcast news companies, everyone was drawing from the same wells of knowlege/news. Now, with Cable and the Web, we draw from pre-packaged, reinforcing "news" that only bolster's what we already believe. I would say it should be regulated but who does anyone trust to do that? The government is already untrusted (see above). It used to be, the press was the check on the politicians. Now, much of the press is sided with their respective politicians. It isn't the press. It's the cheering section.

[Bobby Henderson]

The presenter then interrupted with "The government, the media, and the medical establishment! That's the unholy freakin' trinity, isn't it? Ask most Americans what institutions they trust least of all, and they'd likely reply with that list. Even lawyers wouldn't make the cut now!"

The American public and its conduct on social media is missing from that "trinity" and it is a major part of the problem. The general public is doing just as much to spread misinformation as anyone else. There are consequences to being willfully gullible and stupid, then trying to spread it to everyone else.

If there is any truth to that claim, it is because all three institutions have repeatedly lied to us and continue to do so, over the pandemic more than many other issues. When you have Fauci telling us that masks don't do any good at the outset, and then within 2-3 months we're all being forced to wear them, of course we're going to be skeptical of the two of those institutions he represents.

This notion that Fauci was lying to us is really a bunch of shit. Why is it so hard to understand the experts were having to learn about the SARS-CoV-2 virus on the fly? They didn't know everything about this virus from the outset. And it's downright unreasonable and illogical as hell expecting them to have perfect knowledge about the virus at the time of its discovery.

Of course they didn't think masks would do any good at first. They didn't yet understand how SARS-CoV-2 most often spreads. But they had to issue at least some kind of safety guidance right then. So they were forced into applying the same safeguards as we did for other more familiar viruses, like influenza and the common cold. Those spread more via surfaces than directly through the air. The experts were forced into guessing. That's different from lying. Now it's over a year after the experts figured out masks might be a good idea. So much of the American public still can't understand the concept why. The masks are more about keeping our own dirty particles confined to our own faces rather than protecting us from the particles expelled by other people. Seems pretty simple to understand to me.

Now, if we want to talk about liars, look no farther than media personalities on 24 hour cable news. Those whores, with their bad news bias and political agendas, doing all they can to yank the chains of the American public in return to make loads of advertising money, are the worst bad guys out of this entire situation. They have blood on their hands. And not just from this pandemic either. The American public is addicted to the kind of anger porn they're broadcasting.

It's easy to condemn the vaccine skeptical (I make a distinction between vaccine skepticism based on rational reasons, e.g. pregnant women not wanting to take it because no large scale trials on pregnant patients have been done, and anti-vaxxers, who don't want to take it because they buy into David Icke/Alex Jones BS about little green men and 5G nanoreceivers), and I personally believe that the risk/reward tradeoff favors having it, but by calling them idiots and trying to turn them into social outcasts, you will only strengthen that skpeticism and make it harder to persuade the remaining quarter or so of the population to get vaccinated.

At this point it doesn't make a difference to me how the anti-vaccine crowd feels. If they don't want to get vaccinated, fine. Don't get the shots. See if I care. They've made up their minds. Why should anyone keep trying to convince them otherwise? Let them take their chances with the possible side effects of COVID-19 instead.

This notion those of us in the vaccinated group have to be "nice" to the anti-vax crowd is absurd. When were the anti-vax people ever nice? They've never been a beacon of good manners. We're talking about a group of people constantly spewing anger, doing things like issuing death threats to school board members over freaking masks. Now that the anti-vax people are starting to suffer a backlash it's really an example of them getting a small dose of their own medicine.

Most Americans are sick of this ordeal. We could have been done with this months ago. The anti-vax crowd are the ones needlessly dragging this out farther. Whatever Fauci said or did last year is irrelevant to current events. This current surge in the US was entirely preventable. We have a large segment of our general public who can't seem the grasp the idea that breaking the chain of transmission needed to be job #1. We needed to be starving this virus out of existence. Instead, many Americans have been doing everything to keep that virus alive and give it more chances to mutate into something that puts all of us back to square one.

[Leo Enticknap]

That was taken way out of context and often put up as excuse for never ever trusting any medical advice on Covid.

I'd say reason rather than excuse. My understanding of the background is that Fauci was fully aware of the professional consensus of opinion to the effect that masks were effective at impeding the airborne vector. He also knew that at that time, there was a very limited supply of masks available, and an even smaller supply of N95 masks, and was afraid that if the general public tried to buy them, medical professionals might not be able to get hold of them to use while treating covid patients. So he told the general public that they were of no use, essentially to buy time while the production and importation of these things ramped up.

In the short term, a strong argument could be made that he was justified. There was certainly a shortage at the time. When it first became clear that masks were likely to be required in public places, the only ones I could find were construction dust filter masks at Home Depot, and I bought the last three packets they had.

However, his action had an unintended consequence: it demonstrated to the people that public officials were willing to lie to us if they felt they needed to, just as much as the anti-vaxxers and David Icke do (I'm not even sure that Icke is lying: he's so batshit crazy that he may well actually believe the stuff he comes out with). That generated a critical mass of mistrust, which translates into a big part of the reason why only 56% of the population have had both shots (heard that figure in a radio report today), and most of those who remain are actively determined not to. I would therefore dispute that what Fauci said last year has no relevance to where we find ourselves now. It's a significant part of the reason.

[Mitchell Dvoskin]

My understanding of the background is that Fauci was fully aware of the professional consensus of opinion to the effect that masks were effective at impeding the airborne vector.

Interesting, but do you have any actual evidence to back up your “understanding”? Could you please post any links to Fauci saying or directly publishing this. Leo, you may be correct but there is so much false information out there that I tend to be skeptical of anything that does not provide an appropriate link to back it up.

[Steve Guttag]

Here is a link to a YouTube from back in March of 2020 and it is him talking in a 60 minutes piece. He is clearly downplaying a mask's effectiveness in helping that it may stop a droplet but it is not the help that people think it is. He does start off saying that if one is infected that it will prevent transmitting. This would also be a time when most of America was not infected.

https://youtu.be/PRa6t_e7dgI

He also is clearly stating that he is thinking of the health care people needing [N95] masks. He didn't object to people walking around wearing the disposable masks but didn't think that we, as a country needed to do it...again, back in March 2020. That should not preclude changing one's position as evidence in mask effectiveness comes into play later in the year as cases, infections, deaths, ramp up and masks "flatten the curve."

[Leo Enticknap]

Report: Fauci advised against mask use due to shortages

Incidentally, Google has buried this story (I found it on page 6 of a search for "fauci advice against wearing masks") but it was on the first page of DuckDuckGo and LookSeek results for the same search.

And it gets worse: he has also been caught lying in denying that US tax dollars granted to the Wuhan Institute of Virology were used to research gain-of-function in coronaviruses. It's possible that he simply didn't know, as distinct from was attempting a premeditated deception, but the difference is purely in degrees of dishonesty.

It's hardly surprising, therefore, a third to half of the population are deeply mistrustful of the "unholy trinity." If you know that you've been lied to once, you're not going to trust that source again. So we're now into a boy who cries wolf situation: vaccination is likely the safest course of action for the overwhelming majority of those who haven't had it, but many of them simply don't believe that message, because of where it is coming from.

[Carsten Kurz]

Well, it is not just coming from that unholy trinity, but also from nearly every doctor and otherwise competent medical scientist in the world. Now what are you going to do as an anti-vaxxer when you need heart surgery next year? Find an anti-vaxx surgeon in order to trust him? What if you have a car accident and need intensive care? Waive?

[Steve Guttag]

I may have missed something Leo but I don't think the articles you linked proves your case of outright lying or even that the funds were used in a manner other than he stated. I do look at articles from the NY Post knowing that they have a right-leaning agenda behind them so one has to temper the information coming from a source like that with the filter that has been applied to the writing. "The Intercept" is not a source I know but again, while it gives more detail it doesn't contradict what he has said either.