Coronavax experiences?

[Marcel Birgelen]

Local government first decided it's not safe enough for anybody under 60, since the chance of dying from complications from the vaccine was about the same as dying from a COVID-19 infection for most of the younger population. A few days afterwards they decided to stop using it all-together. I don't have all the exact details why they stopped it entirely, but fear and political power-play might be part of the reason... Belgium decided something similar, they're currently just providing it to people of 55 or older.

I guess the general consensus was that the potential side-effects aren't worth the merits...

[Bobby Henderson]

The news I've heard with the AstraZeneca vaccine is a rare number of people have developed blood clots. Scientists are still trying to research the issue to cancel out any coincidental health issues in those patients. Nevertheless some governments have put that vaccine on hold.

Meanwhile here in Oklahoma they've opened things further. Eligiblity is open to anyone age 16 and older and is now available for out of state residents.

Still feeling slight joint/muscle ache, but nothing like as nasty as this time yesterday. No pain or irritation whatsoever at the injection site, which seems to have been widely reported with Pfizer.

The injection site on my left shoulder was a bit itchy a couple days after shot #1 of the Pfizer vaccine. I had no such issues with shot #2.

[Leo Enticknap]

Both my parents had AstraZeneca in February (their age put them in a high priority category), before the blood clot fears had emerged, and thankfully with no side effects at all. I didn't know that the number of blood clot cases was so high that the AZ vax carries a similar level of risk to under 60s as actually getting the bug (though I did know that allegations regarding risk and efficacy had become embroiled in EU/Brexit politics). Here, several states have suspended usage of the recently approved Johnson and Johnson vax, after clusters of anaphylactic reactions to it occurred at a few centers. The consensus seems to be that this is more likely a bad batch / manufacturing, or a handling issue, than related to the design of the vax itself, but it's looking like the rollout of AZ and J & J has been a bit more glitchy than that of Pfizer and Moderna.

[Marcel Birgelen]

What didn't help the rollout of AtraZeneca is the many delays there have been on the production and distribution side. Also, it was initially labeled as being only 70% effective, while later research classified it being not much less effective than Pfizer/Biontech and Moderna. I guess that made it already look like a second-rate vaccine. The EU/Brexit politics certainly didn't help either, but due to the bad press, many people here have denied being vaccinated by it. The combination with the recent blood clothing issues was the proverbial nail in the coffin.

But the result is a big gap in the vaccine availability, since about one third of the initial supply now simply isn't available. The resulting chaos in rescheduling caused even further delays. I hope the J&J vax, which was developed in the Netherlands by a Belgian company will fare a bit better in the media around here in Europe, so people are actually willing to take it. The problem is though, the AstraZeneca and J&J vaccine seem to be pretty similar, so it's not unlikely we'll see some blood clothing as a side effect with this vaccine too...

[Carsten Kurz]

It has been shown that the thrombosis issues only showed up with younger people, mainly middle aged and younger women, often in combination with birth-control pills. These were very rare cases, I think 30 cases, 7 of them dead, in 18 Million vaccinations in the UK. But this kind of thrombosis is also very rare and clear to diagnose, that's why it came to surface, especially since they occurred very shortly after the vaccinations.
As a matter of fact, taking the pill already includes a decent risk for thrombosis. So that's the reason why they continue vaccinating older people with AZ in many countries.


Another well-unknown issue: AstraZeneca is also the lowest cost vaccine...a shot goes for 3US$ or so. It's important for many countries to have a lower cost alternative to the High-Tech very expensive mRNA vaccines. Plus, the cooling requirements are relaxed.

[Leo Enticknap]

Seven deaths clearly attributable to the shot (at least in part) out of 30m has all the makings of a political mess and a media feeding frenzy, sadly. It's enough for anti-vaxxers to make the claim, with some credibility, that their opposition to the technology is evidence-based and not a wacko, Andrew Wakefield-style conspiracy theory; and vaccine proponents who point out that seven fatalities out of 30m is an order of magnitude fewer than doing nothing and letting the disease work its way through the population to natural herd immunity (which is essentially what happened with Spanish 'flu in 1918-21, because there was no vaccine) will be portrayed as heartless technocrats.

The Johnson and Johnson situation here has now reached the point at which two federal government agencies are calling for a pause in its use. Likely sensible: even if it's only a symbolic pause for a couple of weeks, it will defuse any allegations of ignoring the possibility of a significant scale problem.

[Steve Guttag]

These were emergency use vaccines, which does mean that they have not been vetted against all possibilities and drug interactions. The problem, in this case, of doing nothing and waiting for the full vetting would result in already demonstrable worse outcomes. Furthermore, once a trend (though slight) was noticed, the various governments didn't just forge ahead, they did put a pause on them to see why these particular individuals had bad outcomes.

[Marcel Birgelen]

Unfortunately, the current issues with the J&J vaccine are bad news for the EU in general, as many countries had hoped that it would be able to fill the gap that's left by the AstraZeneca vaccine now being either suspended or just used for selected age groups in some countries.

Usually it takes years before vaccines are vetted for use, we obviously didn't really have the luxury now. But it's exactly this what causes some doubts in people, especially those who were already skeptic regarding vaccinations.

Still, I think that 7 deaths out of 30m is a pretty good number for almost any new vaccine. Sure, it's 7 people too many, but it's practically impossible to produce something that isn't going to cause some unforeseen reaction somewhere, nobody's metabolism is the same...

[Bobby Henderson]

Here in Oklahoma the state department of health has halted the use of the J&J vaccine after earlier recommendations this morning by federal agencies. The mRNA vaccines (Pfizer/Bio-N-Tech and Moderna) are easily available across much of the state. Even though eligibility is open to all people age 16 and older it's still pretty easy to simply walk into one of several local drug stores and get vaccinated immediately without having to wait for an appointment.

[Andrew Freeman]

Here in Vermont, my mom and step-dad were meant to get their shots last minute, but was cancelled because they were Johnson & Johnson.

Any of you guys get your choice of which shot you get (Moderna, Phizer or the ol' J&J)? We don't seem to here.

[Marcel Birgelen]

I guess that letting people choose which vaccine they want like it's a menu in a restaurant will only complicate the planning and increase availability problems even more. On the other hand, I'm afraid a lot of AstraZeneca shots are now rotting away in those countries that implemented a (partial) stop or ban. Maybe they should offer registration lists for those who want to get one of those shots anyway...

[Bobby Henderson]

Any of you guys get your choice of which shot you get (Moderna, Phizer or the ol' J&J)? We don't seem to here.

It's possible to do so via the Vaccine Finder website (https://vaccinefinder.org/search/). The web page features a map and search filters for the three vaccines. Just enter your zip code and go.

[Leo Enticknap]

The argument now seems to be being made more forcefully on both sides of the Atlantic, that withdrawing the AZ and J & J vaccines from use was an overreaction, given the number of cases involved.

My county (San Bernardino County) has a website for booking appointments that I used as soon as it was opened up to all adults over 16 (last Monday). It gives you a list of locations and appointment times to choose from, and tells you which of the three (in the USA: Pfizer, Moderna, and J & J) vaccines you'd be getting at a given center and day. I sought out Pfizer, because I hard heard of many cases of serious side effects after the second dose of Moderna, and at that point J & J had only just been authorized for use and there was no history behind it (besides the trials). I also wanted Friday appointments, so I could recover from any side effects over the following weekend. The site offered a slot for Pfizer on the following Friday at a site 47 miles away, so, as I didn't have a service call that morning (or desk work that couldn't be shunted around it) I took it.

So SB County, at least, gives you the option of getting the vax of your preference, if you're willing to be flexible over the date and location. I guess that might change if all the Pfizer appointments "sell out," but Moderna and J & J ones go unused.

[Steve Guttag]

When I registered with my local county (and about a dozen other entitles...CVS, Walgreens, Safeway...etc...whomever was dispensing at State, County, Hospital, or store), you didn't get a choice. In fact, the first one to "hit" was my county (Anne Arundel, in Maryland)...all I could do was pick a rough time slot on a particular day (and you had to act fast because they filled up in a blink of an eye). Once I made it through that part, 2-days later I then got to register for my specific time (the first registration basically got you to AM/Mid-Day/Afternoon), the questions got MUCH more specific as to various potential drug interactions or other pre-existing things that I suppose could negatively interact with the vaccine of the day. It was Pfizer for me and it was on the second part of the registration is when I found out. So, potentially, if I had a problem with Pfizer, I could have dropped out and gone back in the queue (or waited until I "hit" on one of the other entities). Pfizer was good with me (an my research indicated that it was, at least, as good as any of the others and, quite possibly more effective against some of the mutated variants). Regardless, I clicked on my desired time (AM) and that is what was indeed dispensed that day.

Now, a day after shot #1, I got the email to register for shot #2 and I did have to confirm which vaccine I received so that tells me that either that they are dispensing all three or at least planned on being able to and set up the shot #2 system to handle whatever was dispensed on shot #1 (After all, if it was J&J, there shouldn't be a shot #2 unless there is a circumstance I'm unaware or in case they changed the rules based on later experience). But, it started off indicating that I had Pfizer on shot #1...I just had the option to contradict. Shot #2 for me is about a week and half away and I'm blocking off 2-days after that...just in case.

[Harold Hallikainen]

We got our vaccinations at a Safeway market/pharmacy in Golden CO. There was a website written by an individual that scraped all the websites of those offering vaccinations and reported which ones had open appointments. That was great since we did not have to visit hundreds of web sites. We registered for dose one date and time on the Safeway web site. When we got the vaccination, they made an appointment right then for our second dose. We both got the Pfizer vaccine. I had absolutely no reaction to either dose. Louise got sick for a couple days after the second. It worked out well for us. I expect that since there was not a coordinated appointment system, lots of people put in for appointments at several places and then cancelled when one came through. One interesting thing on the disclosure was that it said something like "Against the advice of the administrator, I agree to take this vaccine." I asked the woman administrating the vaccine. She had not read the disclosure, and apparently on one else had either since no one had asked her about it. I guess this is all part of the emergency use authorization.