Attached Trailers to Feature DCPs?

[Steve Guttag]

Are the studios starting to embed/attach or otherwise make trailers part of the feature DCP? I just got a question about needing/wanting to jump past that in an automated system (TMS creates the shows) and with a variety of servers and vintages.

[Carsten Kurz]

I haven't seen it so far myself. I remember that someone mentioned it on this forum a few days ago - Ryan? Maybe it's the same movie?

[Ryan Gallagher]

Wasn't me. It was Mike talking about a trailer attached to Jurassic World for "The Odyssey".
https://www.film-tech.com/vbb/forum/...tached-trailer

I have the distinct joy of never having to play a trailer unless we want to.

[Brad Miller]

Yes this is a new thing that the studios are starting to test the waters on and it is a terrible idea. Jurassic World was first and now Fantastic Four is doing it next week.

Personally I think if Regal/Cinemark/AMC doesn't gang together RIGHT NOW and adamantly refuse to run any DCP without the feature being a 100% separate DCP, they will be shooting themselves in the foot for all time. This is how the nonsense with preshow advertising started. They will OCCASIONALLY test with a super short teaser trailer and then maybe skip the next few features to see if there is a revolt or not. When there isn't because the first test is so minor they will do it with a longer one (and likely try to tie it into the movie somehow so they can use that excuse) and see if they can get away with that. Before long this will just be a thing that shits up the moviegoing experience. (Case in point most of my venues run trailers at around 4.5 and features at 7...so just imagine that pleasant experience getting to the point of the lights dimming fully, the theater's policy trailer playing and then getting absolutely assaulted with the attached trailer playing at 7.)

Then the server manufacturers will start to devise a way to jump over the attached trailer as a feature they can sell (which of course will not be as easy as it sounds), but the studios won't like that their new guaranteed forced advertising scheme is being bypassed so who knows if the theaters will then end up being required to submit logs to prove they played it or who knows what this will end up like down the road. The studios could theoretically end up controlling the entire trailer pack and preshow by forcing the playback of one DCP.

The big chains had better step up right now and put a stop to this.

[Frank Cox]

Doesn't the GDC server have an option for start playing at a certain point in a dcp? I've never used it (yet) but I'm pretty sure I've seen that in the playlist setup somewhere...

[Ioannis Syrogiannis]

Well, not that new a thing, but -back in the day- one could use a splicer. While now, if they don't have to have two of them, cinemas could use the intermission feature to force things back into their place. (Unless they run a Dolby DSS server, or as Frank says, a GDC, but what TMS would work well with that offset feature?)

Many pre-recorded theatre (National Theatre Live) have a bunch of trailers, intros and ads as well, but they tend to be relevant and (when I was working as a projectionist) I never had an issue with volume. Even though I am always checking the volume, I would write it down as 7.0, never to need to change it. (I doubt things have changed since, and I probably have to attribute that to the show being originally live.)

[Ryan Gallagher]

Old school doremi DCP2K4 can already do it, it permits custom user marks in content and then you can have a macro skip to them. I've used it before to skip past antiquated theme park advertisements attached to DCPs, if I'm feeling lazy and not just pausing and typing in the timecode. Or perhaps i'm remembering using in an intermission context, permitting other DCPs to roll during intermission, and then jumping back into a single DCP at the start of Act II.

I also suspect this experiment is loosely connected to the chain experiments with the dreaded "permium ad slot" ( https://www.film-tech.com/vbb/forum/...-before-movies )... studios want their premium slot back for trailers. Arms Race (to the bottom) it seems.

[Carsten Kurz]

Our Sony can skip any part of a programme with it's intermission feature. That is, I can drop out at any point, insert a 1s black intermission, and jump back at any time into the programme. I use it quite often to jump over copyright/bootlegging warnings. It's invisible, especially at the beginning of a feature.

Forcing a trailer to be played is potentially illegal in Germany, when trailer and main programme film ratings do not match.

[Elia Orselli]

Doremi/Dolby, Barco and GDC (at least SR1000) have a solution to cut part of a CPL.
GDC has a start/end timecode field in CPL properties:immagine.png

Other brands are using markers and a skip to marker automation cue.

Screenwriter has a function called "Entry Point" that has to be enabled to manage pre-show hard lock content. When enabled and configured, it's possible to set parameters for each CPL:
immagine.png

[Ryan Gallagher]

Not to mention if people start passing regional laws on how long the preshow can be (probably a cluster), or laws about advertising start time, as has recently been batted around in the US. If you get a hard locked trailer or two it may put a venue out of compliance if not skipped or noticed and adjusted for.

An amusing compromise would be being forced to advertise a shows “end time”, cause that is often what the complaints are ultimately about. People who are not lazy and really care could deduce the actual film start time by subtracting the usually known runtime.

[Mike Blakesley]

Doesn't the GDC server have an option for start playing at a certain point in a dcp?

Yes, it's in the same menu where you insert cues. There is an option called "start/stop time" and you can enter (down to the exact frame) where you want to start or stop playback. So if you have a 90-second trailer, for example, you would set it up to start playback at the 90 second mark.

The same method could be used to create an intermission. You could just have two instances of the feature film in the play list -- set the first one to 'stop' at the intermission time, and the second one to 'start' at the same point. Then put an "intermission" clip and a pause cue in between them.

[James Gardiner]

From my understanding, although the DCI documents do not specifically say anything about In/out point should not be supported. There was a strong impression that DCI players should not allow cinemas to fiddle with the content they play. i.e they should hot hand control over what the studios send them to play. Meaning, the ability to place in/out points was strongly discouraged to the DCI-player community.
This is why we have "Intermission" tools. As the easiest way to have implemented intermission would have been to support in and out points. It would also be universal in TMS implementation. But instead we get this bastardised versions, different for each vendor and as such poorly implemented if at all in TMS systems.

If they do start cooking in trailers, there is not much that can be done. To deal with it well, the TMS would need to support the understanding. And as TMS makers typically take a LONG time to implement custom features like this. I expect it would not happen at all. Its a good reason to argue to DCI-Player makers to actually do it right and implement in/out points. Which I feel they will no due to the already obvious reluctance.

options.
1. deal with it
2 make a fuss so they don't do it.

The mandated preshow lengths will likely stop this. As currently, there is no way to deal with it and maintain contractual agreements.
My bet is they will stop doing it. Too risky legally.

[Philip Jones]

In the UK I don't think we've ever had an attached trailer (Jurassic World certainly doesn't have one).

We do get short films attached sometimes - Smurfs has a Spongebob short at the start.

[Martin McCaffery]

Did not know about the GDC start play option, thanks.

Yes, the National Theatre Live has all of their self-promotion stuff and the begining, and yes, the sound is all over the place. Be nice to skip that when running a 3hour plus play.

A related problem I have is with Sing Along Grease, which we show annually and inexplicably sells out, or get close. It has stuff at the beginning and end encouraging the audience to demand your local theatre show Sing A Long Grease, and posting a long dead website or something. I probably won't skip that because it usually gets a laugh, but really should have been chopped off years ago.

[Matt Smith]

I am given to think there are two versions of the feature DCPs. Otherwise having a trailer hard-locked before the feature makes no sense when the film being trailered is out and the main feature is being shown in repertory theatres. In the UK, I have seen Jurassic World: Rebirth twice (once in Dolby Cinema, and the second a standard screen) and there was no trailer for The Odyssey.

If the studios want to do this it would be better to put the trailer after the credits as an extra for a limited time. Although I can understand why some exhibitors would be against either.