Projectable? Where do you draw the line?

[Benjamin Ruder]

Kinoton FP-30E/D can handle shrunk film up to 0,8%. Then it taps out. (The film starts climbing over the feeding sprockets, usually the lower one so you lose the intermittent loop gradually). We usually do tests from 0,6% to see how how the print goes through the machine. I have not done the same test on older FP-20:s in recent times. Perhaps they have a slight advantage. DP70 can run prints up to 1,0% shrinkage.

Hi Jerry, I have done a little bit of that testing myself. Have you also done this for 16mm on FP38E?

[Stefan Scholz]

Kinoton FP-30E/D can handle shrunk film up to 0,8%. Then it taps out. (The film starts climbing over the feeding sprockets, usually the lower one so you lose the intermittent loop gradually). We usually do tests from 0,6% to see how how the print goes through the machine. I have not done the same test on older FP-20:s in recent times. Perhaps they have a slight advantage. DP70 can run prints up to 1,0% shrinkage.

Rubber band on the holdback shoe often helped with those prints on the border for FP 30 etc machines.
In my experience my AA's do not have an advantage. For really shrunken film our Bauer U2s offered special sprockets, intended for shrunken nitrate prints.

In general, the acceptance of borderline useable prints has lowered, as most patrons are used to pristine, restored digital version, and do have a lower tolerance on worn and especially faded color print.

[Ryan Gallagher]

Rubber band on the holdback shoe often helped with those prints on the border for FP 30 etc machines.
In my experience my AA's do not have an advantage. For really shrunken film our Bauer U2s offered special sprockets, intended for shrunken nitrate prints.

In general, the acceptance of borderline useable prints has lowered, as most patrons are used to pristine, restored digital version, and do have a lower tolerance on worn and especially faded color print.

The gotchya any place doing both is probably experiencing, is that our programmer is now starting to see real ticket sales increases on 35mm bookings. He's considering doing more of them not less. We've already deviated from his previously stated logic that he only booked prints when a DCP was not available. Ran several the past seasons where that is not true already. I guess it makes some sense though, if people are enjoying them (quality aside), and it won't be possible for too much longer, there is some logic to showing them that way while you still can???

[Jerry G. Axelsson]

Hi Jerry, I have done a little bit of that testing myself. Have you also done this for 16mm on FP38E?

Benjamin,

I have done testing on a Kinoton FP-38E and it does not handle 16mm shrinkage as well as for 35mm. The 16mm testfilm we can did not go well at 0,6%. We have not done any testing beyond that yet.

A note when comparing Kinoton FP-30D and FP-30/38E projectors. The E-machine has a larger intermittent sprocket, which might give you issues with shrikage at an earlier stage than the FP-30D machine. From what we have seen on both D and E-machines, the bottom feeding sprocket is the narrow sector.

Regarding kindness to film and ability to run shrunken film between the Kinoton FP-75E and the DP70. The FP-75E was fine but not as kind as our DP70:s with a new servomotor. Our upgraded DP70:s runs very smooth and has an easy start-up/ramp-up speed.

A note regarding the FP-75E. The filmpath around the soundhead (Kinoton rev. scan) is a fixed path between to feeding sprockets. You should always load the machine with a bit of slack around the soundhead to prevent film damage with shrunken film.

Let say for example that you have a shrunken reel with a new countdown leader. Making the loop just right (tight) on the leader might give you sprocket damage when the shrunken film is passing through the machine. I have seen it first hand.

[Steve Guttag]

The Kinoton RSSD is a "loose loop" system. There should ALWAYS be a pucker as the film heads into the pinch roller. This allows isolation between any eccentricities of the sprockets themselves. In the "Studio" grade projectors, there will also be a damper in the film path (immediately past the drum in the upper-left portion of the soundhead to further stabilize the film through there (it also will eliminate any chance of film damage). Kinoton did sell a retrofit kit for standard RSSDs to get the damper roller.

As for shrunken 16mm film on an FP38E, the larger sprockets (feed, holdback and intermittent) will work against it. While the larger sprockets are an advantage to normal sized film by distributing the load to wear each sprocket less, getting 3-5 perforations to all line up when there is so little tolerance in pitch is near impossible. Your best bet for such film is a 2-perf claw type projector. Even 3-perf claws are going to be dodgy, if not worse.

[Gordon McLeod]

For badly shrunken 16mm prints I like the Fumeo claw machines and for unshrunk The Prevost P16/Ziess Favorite 16b

[Steve Guttag]

Oof...I'd only run the Prevost P16 if there is a trashcan on the output. I'm not a fan. The Baur Selecton II was a decent 16mm projector. The Elmo LX1100/LX2200 were pretty decent claw machines. Elmo also always had better sound than most.

[Alex Mir]

Hi guys, I´m having issues with a Kinoton FP38 EC, the main CPU is crashing almost once a day... anyone knows somebody that may have one board for sale? PEC80-01+02 cheers!

[Benjamin Ruder]

Hi guys, I´m having issues with a Kinoton FP38 EC, the main CPU is crashing almost once a day... anyone knows somebody that may have one board for sale? PEC80-01+02 cheers!

This should be posted in a new thread.

[Ryan Gallagher]

Hi guys, I´m having issues with a Kinoton FP38 EC, the main CPU is crashing almost once a day... anyone knows somebody that may have one board for sale? PEC80-01+02 cheers!

Also post it in the WANTED topic, but discussions can’t take hold there, so definitely make your own topic here too.