Talk of banning Mercury Lamps by 2025, does this effect any DCI projectors out there.

[Stefan Scholz]

It's not these major faults, where there's a black screen, or massive issue on a light modulator.
Components age, old lamp mirror replaced with a new one, and suddenly you notice, that there was just little above 20% brightness left. Color interference filters bleed over time, as do the originally matt black absorbers, which then reflect light into the light path, ruining contrast.
Plus sucked in dirt and fumes.
I do not see the idea behind a retrofit, if your projector has run in excess of 20 to 25 k hours. Yes, you may be getting a new, efficient high brightness light source, but keep the worn out parts in your projector. In case of a major component failing, add that amount to the price paid for the solid state light source, and compare to a new ultra high contrast semiconductor RGB projector, that comes with at least 3 years of warranty.
The NC 900s I service are still operating, from that side they are pretty reliable. They're just a pain if something has to be replaced. But most have lost a lot of brightness, and screens seem to cry for something elso, looking at the dim, greyish colors due to not enough light light output. After 10 years, it should be possible to replace your equipment. The write off time has expired, for some years.

[Carsten Kurz]

The 2025 ban to import new UHP bulbs into the european market (not to sell them after this date within the european market, which will still be allowed beyond this date) only covers small home cinema bulbs - those emitting less light than 2000 ANSI Lumens.
Even if single bulbs (not projectors using multiple lamps) are referred to in these directives, I don't know any cinema projection system using lamps of such low wattage.

From February 2027, also UHP bulbs with a higher lumen output will be banned from being imported into the EU. It is obvious that manufacturers and resellers of these lamps will stock-up these bulbs early enough to cater for future needs. I don't see an issue (other than prices for these bulbs rising) before maybe 2030 effectively, or even later. Even our latest projector using UHP lamps will then be over 12 years old (if still alive at all).
These bulbs are small and can be stored for a long time at minimal cost. They are also not low cost items, so making profit from stock shouldn't be a huge problem.



Even after February 2027, these bulbs can still be produced and sold into other international markets outside the EU - unless other countries issue similar regulations.

Calm down!

[Marco Giustini]

I kind of remember Sony mentioning that the 500 series bulbs were only warranted for a limited amount of time after being sold - and that was because those bulbs had some shelf life. Do I remember incorrectly, Carsten?

It feels weird that suddenly all lamp based Home Cinema projectors become obsolete - I would have expected some flexibility for spare parts.

[Marcel Birgelen]

I guess anything that contains a gas under pressure and requires seals to keep it in there, comes with some limited shelf life, as those seals will leak some of those gases into the atmosphere over time.

From February 2027, also UHP bulbs with a higher lumen output will be banned from being imported into the EU. It is obvious that manufacturers and resellers of these lamps will stock-up these bulbs early enough to cater for future needs. I don't see an issue (other than prices for these bulbs rising) before maybe 2030 effectively, or even later. Even our latest projector using UHP lamps will then be over 12 years old (if still alive at all).
These bulbs are small and can be stored for a long time at minimal cost. They are also not low cost items, so making profit from stock shouldn't be a huge problem.

There is a lot of uncertainty floating around, probably also due to the complex wordings in the regulations and people interpreting stuff the wrong way. Yet, can you tell me where the date of February 2027 comes from? 'm not going to pretend I read every single word in there with the greatest attention, but I'm unable to find it in the original regulation called "Regulation (EU) 2017/852 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 17 May 2017 on mercury, and repealing Regulation (EC) No 1102/2008" and also not in the latest amendment from September last year, called "Commission Delegated Regulation (EU) 2023/2049 of 14 July 2023 amending Regulation (EU) 2017/852 of the European Parliament and of the Council as regards mercury-added products subject to manufacturing, import and export prohibitions". So, what are we missing here..?

[Steve Guttag]

I don't think this is a political position, but here it goes. What is the sense of "banning" a consumption item, like the UHP lamps? It should be sufficient to cease production of the things that use them. it isn't like the screw in light bulb where the thing that used it, a socket, will continue with the new technology.

In the case of a small projector lamp, the technology itself has a limited life span (the projector) such that through attrition, the demand for such lamps will diminish with each year until there isn't a viable model for future manufacture of the lamps. It is like wanting to ban say a photographic camera flashbulb. What would be the point? They are essentially in complete disuse. So, what this sort of ban will do is create more e-waste as the things that used to use them now are going to be disposed rather than the relatively low use of Hg in the lamps (that would diminish to, essentially zero...just over a period of time). It just makes no sense to me.

Then again, I've not been a fan of RoHS as it has ruined electromechanical connections.

[James Gardiner]

The question I have here, if they are going to band Mercury/UHP lamps, why have xenon lamps been overlooked? They have a lot of nasties in them too.

[Steve Guttag]

I would presume xenon is such an infinitesimal industry as to not be worth the time. With Hg...you get all of the fluorescents that the same "green" people were telling people to buy just a few years ago. It wouldn't surprise me if there were more fluorescents made in 1-day than the entire history of xenon lamps...it is that lopsided. I think UHP lamps really got caught with a broad brush of no Hg based lamps.

Xenon, as a gas, isn't an issue. The biggest metal in the lamp is tungsten (the electrodes) and that hasn't shown itself, on its own to be nasty. Oddly, Nickel, has shown itself to be potentially bad...and to think, it only costs you 5¢ to get some! What the tungsten is doped with is probably a bigger issue (e.g. Thorium Oxide).

[Marcel Birgelen]

Mercury is a pretty potent neurotoxin, so it has been on the radar for quite some time. UHP lamps are just a victim of containing a substance that's slowly being banned across the board. There is a lot of nastiness in stuff we use every day. Plastics lead to micro-plastics in the environment, but banning all plastics doesn't seem like a viable option. The impact of this mercury-based products ban is pretty manageable, as for most impacted products there are viable alternatives. The industry at large also doesn't mind too much, as they are going to benefit from providing said alternatives...

I don't think this is a political position, but here it goes. What is the sense of "banning" a consumption item, like the UHP lamps? It should be sufficient to cease production of the things that use them. it isn't like the screw in light bulb where the thing that used it, a socket, will continue with the new technology.

That's essentially what this EU regulation does: It doesn't ban the sale of existing UHP lamps within the EU, it only bans producing them within the EU and it doesn't allow you to import or export them to and from the EU. I guess the second provision is necessary for the first one to make sense. If you want to get rid of something, you obviously have to start somewhere.

Then again, I've not been a fan of RoHS as it has ruined electromechanical connections.

I agree with you on that, but keep in mind that lead also is a pretty nasty and long lingering neurotoxin, of which no amount of exposure has been deemed safe... Recent studies have shown that the exposure to lead via leaded fuels may have had a considerable negative impact on the average IQ of entire nations...

[Steve Guttag]

I do not agree...what the EU is doing is more drastic than what I stated...which is to merely stop the production of things that use Hg lamps and let attrition end their use. The EU took the extra step of preventing the lamps from coming into the EU after the ban...that is something I would not be in favor. Something would have to be soooooo bad that you would want to make its use also illegal before I'd think banning the import of a consumable for a limited-lifetime product, like a projector. I could see that on say A19 lamps because the thing they go in are still being used with the current (LED) technology...there would be no attrition to the lifetime.

As to lead in fuels...no...I'm not buying into that one unless you are working really closely with it...sort of like asbestos in brake linings. I could believe that the mechanics have a particular exposure to both but not so for the casual user. I have definitely not seen any evidence of the world getting smarter since the disappearance of lead in gas.

In the US, I'd call leaded gas as an example of letting the consumable die through attrition. It wasn't banned in the US until way into the 2000s despite all cars from 1974 onward requiring unleaded...and that was only to let the catalytic converter to work...it wasn't to stop leaded gas. The lead would plate onto the platinum in the CC and kill it.

Lead in gas was a nasty business and used to raise the octane at the expense of everything else. It fouled up spark plugs and everything...nasty. Back then, you'd have to change your spark plugs pretty regularly...something like 10X to how they last now.

I remember when the whole world switched to Catalytic Converters and hated it because cars smelled like rotten eggs. Then, decades later (because I had a pre-74 car up until the late 90s) I'd ride in a old car and smell the gas and think "wow...i forgot that is how they used to smell...quite stinky." It has completely flipped (plus cars have gotten WAY better than the early days of CC).

[Marcel Birgelen]

Banning the import (and export) has both a political reason and a practical one. First of all, it would not be fair if the local market would not be able to supply a product, because its production is banned, but you're fine to get it from somewhere else. Secondly, countries like China will keep on producing this stuff, until the economic incentives start to die out, which could take decades. EU lawmakers are apparently not willing to wait that long.

As with anything with political motivations behind it, this regulation may get new amendments before it's even becoming effective, this may extend deadlines for certain applications, for which there are little alternatives. Then, all EU member states also need to convert it into local law, before it can be effectively enforced by those member states, often leading to further delays in regulation becoming enforceable law...

B.t.w., this is one of the articles that cites the research. The article itself states pretty bold claims like this:

Exposure to leaded gasoline lowered the IQ of about half the population of the United States, a new study estimates.

The peer-reviewed study, published Monday in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, focuses on people born before 1996 — the year the U.S. banned gas containing lead.

[Gordon McLeod]

Well lets look again the film industry is now totally reliant on HMI lamps especially on on any film based recording LED spectral dont play nice with film just as did early HMI didn't bring back national carbon and brute arcs
as for xenon the trace amounts of thorium in the electrodes is a non issue

[James Gardiner]

Yes, xenon lamps and the slight radioactivity. Why you should stay away from broken lamps if planning to get on a plane, as if you get tested for trace elements at security, you may have to talk your way out of having radioactive traces on yourself. Probably not a comfortable situation, and you will miss your flight!!!

But otherwise, nice to know xenon is unlikely to be affected like UHP..

Also interesting, it may mean a lot of these projectors end up getting shipped to other countries that have less strict regulations.
Australia is known for following there types of regulations.

Whats is the U.S. expected to do in this department?

[Steve Guttag]

I should note, the 1996 "ban" on leaded gas in the US was just for on-the-road vehicles so you couldn't get it at the "fillin' station." Over 20-years past when the last car that used it was sold (and there was essentially no market for leaded gas). It was still legal for sale for off-road vehicles, farm equipment, race cars, airplanes. NASCAR didn't ban the stuff until 2007.

I have not heard of a movement to ban HMI/UHP lamps in the US but most of what has traditionally used HMI lamps has moved towards LED and laser already so, through attrition, and the market forces I'd think it would just die away. I think our industry will see the same thing with xenon lamps. Almost no new projectors use them and there is no economic incentive to use xenon over laser...quite the opposite, once you factor in electricity. Slashing your electric bill by 67% is a pretty big incentive on its own. Add into that switching to LED lamps over traditional bulbs in other parts of the cinema...the demand for older illumination is going to drop on its own, over time.

[Stefan Scholz]

Xenons are bad from a perspective of work safety, as even cold they feature an explosion hazard. That's eventually what's going to ban them, despite the fact of way better electric efficiency in using semiconductor light sources for the purpose.
Let me think of amusement park lighting. A decade ago, there were large Xenon effects in a park nearby, utilizing 2, 5, 6 and 10 kW Xenon burners, as well as a few HMI based ones. A few years ago they were replaced with LED and Laser effects. Higher brightness, drastically reduced power consumption, long life and virtually no maintenance. Huge economical benefits.

More of a problem is the ROHS in respect to soldering electronics, and resulting in a limited life of lead free soldered products. The initial idea behind, to ban the influence of a neurotoxic substance to humans. Which is not present in the manufacturing or work with lead tin solder. The lead has to be in a vaporized form, or a chemical substance containing lead to accumulate in the body.
The initial argument has been, that a huge amount of electronic waste ended in landfill in Africa, where it is burnt by locals to extract valuable materials. It was claimed the burning temperatures lead to vapor exposure. No landfill fire will reach the evaporation point of lead, which is in excess of 2000 Kelvins (1744°C), just a wrongly placed information by environmentalist NGOs at the time.
When soldering, at max 400°C, no hazard exists. You wouldn't hold soldering wire in your mouth, and probably not use it to cover your sandwich. Instead of focusing on science this was a religious belief that gave the results. Not really the best decision, as seen on failing aircraft systems and medical life saving equipment, where the use of leaded solder was reenforced after incidents.

If there's a competitive advantage over existing, it will be done. Thereby not needing regulations, see the amusement park I mentioned.

[Marcel Birgelen]

I don't think that lead evaporation really is the issue at large. The problem is that a lot of this stuff ends up in landfills and from there it will slowly make its way into the ground and possible the water supply of both humans and animals. For this to happen, no evaporation at high temperatures is needed.

Yes, xenon lamps and the slight radioactivity. Why you should stay away from broken lamps if planning to get on a plane, as if you get tested for trace elements at security, you may have to talk your way out of having radioactive traces on yourself. Probably not a comfortable situation, and you will miss your flight!!!

Radioactivity is not something that easily "infects" other objects and makes them radioactive, at least not at those low energy levels. The radioactive elements in those bulbs are in gaseous forms, so they don't really get into your clothes or into your skin. So I doubt someone ever missed his flight because he changed a xenon bulb a day before.