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Is the new standard now to show visible letterboxing and pillar bars?

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  • #31
    Yes, this is the mind of the dedicated projectionist, wanting perfect shows, eliminating any imperfection that may mar the audience's ability to experience the film to the fullest, constantly trying to figure out ways to correct anything that will detract from that goal.

    One time when I was running MONTEREY POP, a film by D. A. Pennebaker, Don came up to the booth before the movie and explained it was a rock music film and if I could turn up the volume two points at the beginning of the first reel. I told him, believe me, that wouldn't be a problem -- I said I loved to punch up sound on such movies -- WOODSTOCK, LET THE GOOD TIMES ROLL. A HARD DAYS NIGHT, etc., plus I had run his film at least three other times and I was familiar with it. Over the years, as an art house, we've had directors at the screenings of their films for Q&A and some of them have sent messages about this or that issue they wanted corrected or dealt with -- not unusual. Mr. Pennebaker, however, was the first one ever to come up to the booth himself. That surprised me; what surprised me even more, was at the end of the show, he again made his way up to the booth again to thank me for the presentation. Then he added that most people don't appreciate that the success of his film is in the hands of the projectionist...it all rests on his shoulders. Wow! I then thanked him profusely! Think about it -- the projectionist, although perhaps separated by lots of time, yet he is still the last member of the team of hundreds of people from the actors, the cinematographer and every technician that worked to make that film a reality. All of their creative work is distilled down to a loan projectionist in a booth in some theatre somewhere running out reels of their film. Either he does as good a job as everyone else who's work on the film, or he can ruin it. It all comes down to his expertise, his attention to detail and his dedication to make that movie come alive for an audience sitting in a dark theatre through a flawless presentation. A projectionist just like Jim, determined to figure out what is the best way to get negative splices to be the least objectionable. Jim, I would think that Paul Thomas Anderson would thank you for your concern and efforts with LICORICE PIZZA. And then go scream at the lab that did the work on those prints. Is it THAT difficult to hard-matte 70mm prints to cover neg splices the same way they hard-matte 35mm 1.85 prints to cover set gack and mics?

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    • #32
      In my area new theaters have been built with no movable masking at all, and chains have made it "policy" not to use masking in older theaters that have it. My policy is if I see a movie that isn't properly masked, I simply don't go back to that theater. I can already watch letterboxed movies at home. You would've thought the pandemic closings would have knocked some sense into those people, but that doesn't seem to have been the case- they should've just remained closed.

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      • #33
        I’m with Jesse on this. The new Cinemark at the Willowbrook Mall in Wayne NJ is probably the nicest multiplex in Northern NJ, but unfortunately no masking. I complained to corporate about this and actually received an email reply very politely saying that if I don’t like it don’t come back. I have taken their suggestion and haven’t been back since.

        No masking = poor presentation = I take my business elsewhere.

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        • #34
          Mr. Pennebaker, however, was the first one ever to come up to the booth himself.
          We had Pennebaker down here for the War Room. One of the nicest people I've ever met in showbiz. And not saying this because he was a friend of my friends. Ironically, my friends shot a few movies with him over the years and they say "You can always tell what footage was shot by Penny, there's dirt in the gate." Seems that was pretty much his trademark (which disappeared when he went to video).

          As for the subject of this thread...What makes you think there are standards?!

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          • #35
            My policy is if I see a movie that isn't properly masked, I simply don't go back to that theater.
            No masking = poor presentation = I take my business elsewhere.
            Where are you guys going when there is nowhere left with masking?

            I like good presentation as well, and I appreciate masking the same way as I appreciate the use of curtains where they are present, but it's not a hill that I am willing to die on any longer. This is especially so as digital cinematography has ushered in an era of changing aspect ratios within the same feature. I would think that BOTH letter and pillar boxing a feature presentation in the center of a screen is careless, but in general if the film's image fills at least one screen dimension reasonably well, then I am good to go. I've made my peace with the situation to the point where I no longer expect masking, and thus I am not disappointed. This holds especially true for independents and art houses, both of which I want to support.
            Last edited by Mark Ogden; 01-06-2022, 04:30 PM.

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            • #36
              Studios don't seem to care much about the presentation or picture quality until a filmmaker demands certain things. Key to making any change will be getting filmmakers to take an interest in how their films are exhibited. Another problem is that there are so many aspect ratios, not just Flat and Scope. I recently cataloged more than 700 DVDs and Blu-Rays in my collection as I am building a home theater. What I found was an astounding number of ratios. 1.33:1, 1.375:1(academy), 1:66:1(VistaVision), 1;77:1, 1:78:1, 1.85:1(flat), 2:1, 2:20:1(super panavision), 2:35:1(old scope), 2.39:1(current scope), 2:40:1(sometimes scope), 2:55:1, 2.76:1(ultra panavision).
              Last edited by Rusty Gordon; 01-06-2022, 09:58 PM.

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              • #37
                ....and that is why we have a COMMON HEIGHT system with movable MASKING. You keep the height the same and then all you need to do is adjust the magnification which is a lot easier with zoom lenses nowadays with film, and fixed focal length lenses, you had to have a lens for each ratio. I've got five lenses in the art-house booth, or should I say, 10 lenses (dual change-over). Masking just moves to accommodate every format.

                And of course the REASON everyone went thru all that trouble to introduce CinemaScope was to make the picture get WIDER, not shrink. Not having common width is the TOTAL antithesis of what wide screen is all about...the image is supposed to get wider, not just change it's shape, and CERTAINLY it's not supposed to SHRINK! I guarantee, when a director and cinematographer choose to create a movie in scope...they don't expect that when it is screened, it is going to get smaller than the previews or other content shown before it.

                And just for a bit of nit-picking, and it's a mistake EVERYONE seems to makes, like IMDB and the copywriters who do the sleves for DVDs and BluRays, but the Academy AR is 1.375:1 or round it off just for convenience -- 1.37:1. !.33:1 is for silent film only. All those other spherical wide-screen ratios are simply a matter of an aperture plate to crop top and bottom of the image matched with a proper FL lens and a movable mask that then borders the image properly or as our John Pytlak used to call it, "film done right"

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Frank Angel View Post
                  .
                  And just for a bit of nit-picking, and it's a mistake EVERYONE seems to makes, like IMDB and the copywriters who do the sleves for DVDs and BluRays, but the Academy AR is 1.375:1 or round it off just for convenience -- 1.37:1. !.33:1 is for silent film only. All those other spherical wide-screen ratios are simply a matter of an aperture plate to crop top and bottom of the image matched with a proper FL lens and a movable mask that then borders the image properly or as our John Pytlak used to call it, "film done right"
                  I stand corrected. Indeed Academy is 1:375:1.

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                  • #39
                    No masking = poor presentation = I take my business elsewhere.
                    Where are you guys going when there is nowhere left with masking?
                    I'm 100% with Mitchell on this. And where am I gonna go to see quality presentation? I'll still seek out exhibitors that still do it right, and there are a few. Or, to my home theatre where I don't have to put up with any of this subpar presentation that passes for what is acceptable. If enough exhibitors are OK with cutting corners and purposely choose to "just get by," and in the process, educate the public to expect nothing but the bare minimum quality, and even THAT done incorrectly, then eventually and sooner rather than later giving that it only takes a generation or two to never have experienced top notch presentation, it may seem that they've won, but instead they have only raised the flag of mediocrity and that gives no incentive for anyone to choose seeing a movie in a theatre as opposed to Netflix on their table or home flat panel TV. Exhibitors will have themselves made "going to the movies" irrelevant. Or in many cases, the public may see theatres as the LEAST attractive way to see movies.

                    But some of us can and will resist and if it means staying home and watching content on our own setup, then so be it. Luckily, studios now are just aching to sell their product directly to the consumer and so we are no longer shackled to the brick and mortar cinemas; if we choose not to support mediocrity by giving them our $$$, we do have the option to go around them. Exhibition that continues to short-change on showmanship and presentation are hoisting themselves on their own petard. And I don't think many of us will shed many tears for their declining fortunes.
                    Last edited by Frank Angel; 01-07-2022, 10:12 AM.

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                    • #40
                      And I don't think many of us will shed many tears for their declining fortunes.
                      The problem with this outlook is that there is a critical mass where the number of theatres declines to a point that it's no longer worth the hassle of getting movies into the theatres that remain and then the "good guys" go down the tube too.

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                      • #41

                        One of my very first jobs was as an assistant manager at the State Theatre (of the Interstate chain) in Austin TX. The first thing the manager gave me was the manager's manual and said I was to read thru it and take it to memory as it was the chain's bible. It gave a whole chapter on the "Curtain Use Protocol," which went on at length on how and when the curtain and curtain warmer lights were to be use. There was one item labeled VERY IMPORTANT. It read "The audience shall never EVER be allowed to enter the theatre to see a NAKED SCREEN! Seeing a blank screen obliterates the illusion that the screen space is a magical window thru which wonderful and amazing things will be experienced. A naked screen is the mortal sin of showmanship." And they weren't kidding. The first week I was there, the curtain motor failed. The manager was beside himself and showed me the Time Schedule for the week, pointing out over and over that I had have TWO ushers go back stage 15min before the start of the show and 15min before the end of the show, to open and close the curtains. Why make them go there so early and just wait; and why two of them - - only one is needed to pull curtain? He got agitated at the question. "Because in case one of the idiots forgets and 15 minutes because if not they are sure to be late; I want them there in plenty of time." I also found out that the company had a "Street Manager" who made random visits to the chain's theatres and as the manager put it, you don't ever want him to come in and see a curtain open and a naked screen. He didn't say what would happen, but I got the impression he wouldn't be giving out bonuses. Ah...days gone by.




                        Boy I'd like to read that manual! I have an issue with "naked screens" too and not sure how I even came across that phrasing, and this may be the only time I have read it.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Mark Ogden View Post
                          Where are you guys going when there is nowhere left with masking?
                          Not many places left, but I can watch plenty of movies at home. I don't have masking at home either (I have a 75-inch flat panel), but for me that's just a by-product of video- besides, there are some people with video projection systems who DO have masking. I'm not going to reward any theater that deliberately puts on a subpar presentation with my money- they don't even deserve to be in business at all and I'm certainly not going to help them stay in business. Some of this is personal since I spent ten years in the theater business (1991-2001) and should have been one of those people calling the shots by now, but I left because the sheer amount of pure stupidity was taking a serious toll on my mental health. It was like I had to apologize for wanting to put on a perfect presentation. In this case, the idiots won.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Rusty Gordon View Post
                            Studios don't seem to care much about the presentation or picture quality until a filmmaker demands certain things. Key to making any change will be getting filmmakers to take an interest in how their films are exhibited. Another problem is that there are so many aspect ratios, not just Flat and Scope. I recently cataloged more than 700 DVDs and Blu-Rays in my collection as I am building a home theater. What I found was an astounding number of ratios. 1.33:1, 1.375:1(academy), 1:66:1(VistaVision), 1;77:1, 1:78:1, 1.85:1(flat), 2:1, 2:20:1(super panavision), 2:35:1(old scope), 2.39:1(current scope), 2:40:1(sometimes scope), 2:55:1, 2.76:1(ultra panavision).
                            Actually Vistavision is (pick one)
                            1.66:1 (Hard matted on the print)
                            1.85 (To make it easy for those already using 1.85.
                            2.00:1 (for those that want the most impact).

                            There is actually a framing mark occurring twice at the beginning of each reel showing the proper framing to be used for each of the 3 supported aspect ratios.

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                            • #44
                              I was always very dubious about the VistaVision concept and that it was flawed at its core. How can the extremes of 1.66 vs 2.00 be the same in terms of how the cinematographer composed the shot? I mean, yes, he could be aware of what the audience would see in each of those ARs with the camera view finder showing the crop lines for each, but surely only one of them is the one that is the "perfectly" composed shot -- they can't each be the ideal. The difference between 1.66 and 2.00 isn't insignificant, with 2:1 being a much tighter look and feel where as 1.66:1 is a much more open look. And sure, the camera person can make sure set gag doesn't show up in 1.66 and that foreheads and chines are not cropped out -- those mechanics can be dealt with, but he/she can't compensate for the different aesthetic each AR produces. They both can't deliver the same feeling of space and the director can't claim that obvious difference doesn't affect his film. Besides which, I never understood why the choices were even given. Pick an AR as say that's what it is just like every other widescreen system.

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                              • #45
                                Frank superscope was offered with flat and scope versions in multiple AR's

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