Barco ICP-D issues

[Carsten Kurz]

A colleague switched some of their older ICPs to ICP-Ds and has two issues:

First, not directly related to the ICP-D - the recommended Barco software updates 2.10.x result in the lamp power supply not being recognised anymore. Going back to 2.8.86 fixes it. Seems to be related to main program module.
Second, with the ICP-D install, the previous ICP chip fan become useless, and the ICP-Ds crash very early due to overheating now, because the side cooling seems to be inefficient.

Anyone experienced the same? These are older Barco projectors, probably 10-11 years old. They are considering going back to original TI ICPs now.

[Steve Guttag]

My only ICP-D experience is with S4 projectors. The current 1.4.0.0 for S4 has no issues (with my systems) with the ICP-D. As for S2 and firmware 2.10.113 or 2.10.115, I have not experienced any issues on any model with it. I have it loaded on C and B projectors with as few as 1 LPS and as many as 3 LPS so I'm wondering if there isn't an ICP-D related issue there. This is definitely worth a call to Barco/Cinionic tech support. I'd use the ICP in S2s as long as possible. I don't see any advantage to the ICP-D there (and not really even in the S4 besides it being required...it doesn't handle scaling as nice as the ICP and it doesn't understand anamorphic lenses, which I have in some sites).

[Leo Enticknap]

Ughhh. The problem is going to happen when an old school TI ICP craps out (which, given the soldered cert battery and the age of early ones, is about to happen in significant numbers), and Barco no longer has any new replacements, and will only supply the ICP-D. The LPSU problem is likely a relatively easy firmware fix, but the overheating is a bigger problem. If it's a problem with the designed airflow (e.g. not just a dirty card cage air filter), then the two big fans in front of the card cage will probably have to be replaced with more powerful ones.

In the meantime, noted that as ICPs in B and C series Barcos bite the dust, replace them with TI ICPs as long as they're still available.

[Marcel Birgelen]

I guess the S4 has better airflow through the card cage... What's Barco's statement on the backwards compatibility of the ICP-D in S2 projectors? I thought this would become "the new norm"?

I suppose the overheating part is inside the closed package on the ICP? Maybe there is some room left to stick a heatsink on there?

[Carsten Kurz]

As far as I know (and that is even for europe), the ICP-D is actually lot more expensive than the original TI ICP. The only real benefit being that it sports a replaceable cert battery in a similar fashion as the ICMP does. But it lacks some of the original ICP features, some processing features Steve mentioned already, but also no support for Enigma boards/link encryptors, no Cinecanvas subtitling (Interop DCP timed text). So, this colleague thought they were getting a modernised ICP, but what they got for seven grand is actually a crippled ICP, and with some issues. The ICP-D, though, comes with two HDMI 2.0 inputs (and disables the DVI inputs on the cinema controller).

They are now trying to live-replace the cert batteries on their 11+ years old ICPs and get them back to work and either return the ICP-Ds or keep them as spares.
As far as I know, Barco ships all classic S2 projectors with their ICP-Ds since January 2021. There is an InfoT1501, but it doesn't mention any specific cooling issues, just that the separation metal plate has to be removed from the card cage.

[Leo Enticknap]

Did your colleague who had an overheating ICP-D remove the separator plate between the ICP and the option slot? If (s)he didn't, that might explain the overheating.

[Carsten Kurz]

Yes, he mentioned the removing of that plate explicitly.

[Leo Enticknap]

So unless the card cage filter was clogged or one of the fans was not working properly, it's a design issue. The airflow through the card cage is not enough to keep the ICP-D comfortable.

[Marcel Birgelen]

They are now trying to live-replace the cert batteries on their 11+ years old ICPs and get them back to work and either return the ICP-Ds or keep them as spares.
As far as I know, Barco ships all classic S2 projectors with their ICP-Ds since January 2021. There is an InfoT1501, but it doesn't mention any specific cooling issues, just that the separation metal plate has to be removed from the card cage.

I guess they tested it on all the S2 models they still ship, at least that's what you expect. So I guess your colleague's models are not on that list... Difficult situation regarding to claims towards Barco, if they didn't explicitly state a compatibility... Still, I'd log a case with them...

Maybe it's a rather easy fix, like stepping up the fan speed for the fans that cool the card cage (which would be mostly a firmware update).

I personally find it somewhat strange that this separator plate has to be removed. It shouldn't block any airflow and it should actually insulate the cards more from each other, or am I missing something here?

[Steve Guttag]

In the US, the ICP-D is priced lower than the original ICP (from Barco...the ICP is significantly lower from the other two OEMs in the US but I have not checked on NEC recently and they really jacked up their parts prices around the time of the Sharp/NEC thing.

I'd rather have a 10+ year battery on ICPs than 3-5 year batteries of the ICP-D though being able to change them is certainly better.

As for the S2 projectors that they still ship. They ship ALL of the S2 projectors from the B series and all but the 12C from the C series, still. The S and E series are now EOL in favor of the S4 (S) series.

I'm surprised that they would have cooling issues since most of the S2 projectors have the same cooling/air flow and would be easy enough to have heatsinks placed to capture the existing air flow. Plus, if one is going to design a new module with the intent of it being a replacement, to test it and not have it on the edge of failure...even if it would require an S2 "kit" to direct air flow/capture air flow to the cool what needs cooling.

[Carsten Kurz]

These are very old (11 years) S2 machines. Don't know the exact type, but they measured one of the cert batteries at around 2.5 volts (still working at the time), so they ordered ICP-Ds to be on the safe side. Maybe the ICP-D has not been tested in this type of machine at summer or long operating temperatures.

If I remember right, ICP replacements have been quoted on this forum at around 4000-5000US$. Is that the 'other' OEMs price, or is there a rebate if you send in the old ICP?
With all what the ICP-D can't do, I would certainly prefer a TI ICP (unless I was interested in HDR capable HDMI2.0 inputs). But for how long will original TI ICPs be available, especially when the upcoming mass dying starts?

[Steve Guttag]

What will be the end of the TI ICP will be the adoption of the S3/S4 projectors by everyone. NEC's FMT based projectors (e.g. NC-1000, NC-1201L, NC 2041L, NC-3541L...etc). Christie's S3 and beyond (CPx3xx)...all use "ICP" like boards but of the specific OEM manufacture. As such, there won't be any new demands for TI's ICP. Barco has thrown down the sword by declaiming that it is using the ICP-D on new projectors so they are done buying them from TI...which helps their profits since they don't have to pay TI AND they get wherever quantity discounts on making more of their own stuff.

[Marcel Birgelen]

Maybe TI also doesn't even want to be in that business anymore. I don't know how much they make on each ICP board, but producing low-volume boards doesn't seem to be TI's core business. Most projectors out there don't need a specific "ICP" board and integrate that functionality into other boards. I guess TI is fine with making the margin on the necessary chipsets that still find their way into the ICP replacements.

The problem we face is with the battery dilemma of the existing pool of ICPs out there and no new ICP production in sight, the "classic ICP" will slowly go extinct, leaving a lot of otherwise good and expensive hardware behind as potential heavy bricks. It would be good to know that at least, for the Barco Series 2, there is a way forward beyond this limited pool of replacement ICPs. Yeah, you loose some functionality, but for MOST applications, that's still pretty much acceptable.

[Marco Giustini]

Maybe not relevant but make sure your filters are clean. With ‘clean’ I mean you should be able to see through them. If not, you can wash them with warm soapy water (carefully as they are quite fragile).
barco mesh filters tend to accumulate grime (particularly greasy stuff) and then they just don’t allow any more air through. At that point, brushing or vacuuming them is not enough anymore.

[Leo Enticknap]

If it's a clogged air filter, agreed that this could cause card cage overheating issues, but surprised that it's only the ICP that is overheating. Also agreed that if a booth is dry and dusty, blowing the filters out is usually sufficient; but if it's a high humidity booth, and/or there is popcorn oil in the atmosphere, that's not going to work. If you have to wash the filters, doing so at the end of the evening, after the last show, is a good idea, because you can then leave them to dry overnight.