Super 8/16mm screen ideas

[James Collins]

Hello,

im planning on having my carpenter build a screen for me. I show 16mm and super 8 films?

i am going to tell him i want it to be like a picture frame. I recently moved to a cabin that has wood walls. So i want a screen i can hang on the wall like a picture frame.

i wanted to ask advice as to aspect ratio for super 8 and 16mm and any ideas on what paint to use?

i got good advice on these forums years ago but cant find the thread. But the one kid said to paint a 2” black border around the screen.

but if anyone has any advice as to aspect ratio for screen dimensions or paint to use etc. (i was gonna tell my carpenter to use plywood for the main part of the screen) but any advice on aspect ratio, paint to use ect. Would be appreciated.

[Vern Dias]

Assuming you are not going to project scope, the proper aspect ratio for both are 1.37:1. Yes you can do a black border, if you want to. Frankly I am not a fan of spending a ton of money on a commercial screen. You should definitely stay away from any kind of high gain screen, (beaded, etc) and any kind of roll up screen (wrinkles). I personally have used canvas painted with flat white latex, but the frame needs to be well reinforced as the water in the latex will cause the canvas to shrink.

While I don't project film on it any more, I have had excellent results with white drapery blackout fabric. No paint required!

Here are several photos:PXL_20201020_211912206.MP.jpg
PXL_20201123_211654734.NIGHT.jpg
tic_20200813_084803c.jpg

Screen size 53" x 144" JVC RS57 Video Projector Isco 1.5X Cinema DLP anamorphic lens. The above photo was from a Blu ray disc.

[James Collins]

Thanks for the reply.

my screen would be smaller. Like maybe 26.5” by 72”?

or even 13.25” by 36”? But my screen will be smaller. What about plywood as wood for the main part of the screen? Also as far as paint a flat white latex paint would be good? What about the black paint, any ideas on what kind of black to use?

anyway again thanks for the response and if you can get back to me id appreciate it. Thanks again

[Vern Dias]

Those are not 1.37:1 screen sizes. 26.5 x 36.3 would be a 1.37:1 screen. Note that these sizes are not inclusive of the black masking area.
Your quoted screen size would make a 2.70:1 screen which be OK if you were planning to show 16mm CinemaScope prints.
If you use plywood, it would need to be a finish grade, primed and sanded before painting to avoid the grain showing.
Pure white flat latex paint would be fine.
An ultra-flat black would work for the masking around the edges. I would spray, no roller or brush marks.

[James Collins]

Ok thanks.

i must have calculated wrong i definatly want 1.37:1

[Randy Stankey]

If I was going to build a rigid screen, I would use white cotton duck cloth stretched over a wooden frame, painted white. For the black edges, I would use black Duvetyne fabric.

Build a frame out of wood and reinforce the corners with corner blocks. If the frame is large and you are concerned that the frame will rack, use wooden stretchers, ropes or cables strung corner to corner. Stretch the canvas around the frame and staple it in back. Paint it white. Basically, you're making a Broadway style stage flat.

For the black edging, use black Duvetyne cloth. (Basically, a black, cotton cloth that's been brushed to a suede-like texture on one side.) Fold the cloth, lengthwise, then steam it and iron it down to make a crisp edge. The trick is to suspend the fabric, stretched taut, about an inch above the surface of the screen. The shadow of the dark fabric on the light screen will create the optical illusion of sharpness at the borders.

You can use any good quality bright white latex paint on the canvas and it should make a good projection surface. Yes, the paint will likely make the fabric shrink but you, kind of, want that. That's how you get a nice, tight as a drum, surface with no wrinkles. It's the way stage flats are made and the shrinkage is factored in when you build them.
You should not have to worry about the paint cracking if you don't layer it on too thick.

If you attach your screen to the wall and put a decorative frame or curtains around it, I think you'll have a fine projection screen that will look good in your room.

[Leo Enticknap]

Anal retentiveness alert: SMPTE RP 20-2003 specifies the projection gate for regular 16mm as being .380" x .284", which is between 1.33 and 1.34. 1.37 is the 35mm pre-widescreen, but with optical audio, projection ratio that was the de facto standard after the Movietone ratio but before widescreen became widespread. Super 8 is closer to 1.33, too, but I can't remember the exact figures. Not that this will make a huge amount of difference in figuring out a screen size, admittedly.

The main reason for the 1.33 / 1.37 difference is that 1.33 was the ratio of the projection aperture for 35mm, full gate silent. As 16mm was also originally silent (perforations on both sides), it adopted the same shape of frame. However, when audio was added to 35mm, it was done by taking away some of the real estate inside the perforations, which fundamentally changed the shape of what was left, to the so-called Movietone ratio of roughly 1.19:1. 16mm didn't have that problem, because audio was added by removing the perforations on one side, and putting the soundtrack where they were. Professional filmmakers and cinema audiences didn't like an aspect ratio that was almost square (though, IMHO, some used the Movietone ratio very effectively), so it was made wider by letterboxing the 35mm frame. Why they decided on 1.37 rather than the well established 1.33 I can't remember if I ever knew. Must have a look through the SMPE (the T came later) journals from that time if I ever get a moment.

[Ed Gordon]

While I don't project film on it any more, I have had excellent results with white drapery blackout fabric. No paint required!

I have used the white blackout fabric as Vern mentioned above, and also had great results. It produces a very flat, no wrinkle, matte-white surface to project on. In my case I went for a 12 foot wide constant height at 2.35:1 aspect ratio.

[Steve Guttag]

The nominal Movitone projection aperture is .680" x .820" or closer to 1.21:1 (JSMPE Jan 1930, pg 117).

As per ANSI/SMPTE 154, Super-8's projection aperture is about 1.32:1 at max. The width is listed as .209" but the height has a "max" dimension of .158" So, if the height is slightly less, the final AR will be wider. As can happen, there are other documents, like RP56, which is a "Safe Action Area" document that lists the width at .211" and still the height at .158"...which gets you closer to 1.34. So, I'd say a "nominal" AR of 1.33:1 is appropriate. That said, the Standard is the definitive document and takes precedence over an RP (Recommended Practice, which is above an EG or Engineering Guideline).

[Brad Miller]

Assuming you don't need an acoustically transparent screen to put speakers directly behind the image, go with a sheet of the whitest formica countertop you can get. I believe the maximum size is 12 feet wide by 5 feet tall. You can get it from any Home Depot on order. So get it however tall and wide you need (assuming not taller than 5 feet) and then have your carpenter glue a wooden frame behind it. Trust me when I say it will do a FAR better job than fabric or painting something.

You can buy a roll of 3 inch black gaffer's tape and apply it around the edges too for masking.

[Gary A. Hoselton]

Are your projection lenses fixed length, such as 2" for 16mm, or zoom lenses where you can vary focal length? If fixed length, then the size picture those lenses put on your wall will determine your white area dimensions. If so, set projectors up one at a time and run a little film and measure x and y dimensions. Expect that ratio of x to y will be right on 1.33:1. If you don't put film in the projector and just project the aperture, don't leave lamp on very long or you may overheat the projection lens causing its optical elements to delaminate--not good.

Black edge masking gives a sharp edge to picture, looks more professional. But, not mandatory; you'd soon get used to the fuzzy picture edges and not really notice them. I did a good job once by projecting aperture onto new white painted screen, made some light pencil marks here and there along the aperture line, then lay screen on floor and made continuous pencil line about 1/2" in from light marks (1/2" for a 4' tall picture, less for smaller picture), and brushed on best flat black paint I could find, which came from a sign painters supplier as I recall. For white paint, get the best, dead flat or matte, perhaps talk with Sherwin Williams or similar commercial store, preferably not homeowners store as looking for technical knowledge. Problem is white paint is compounded from either the red or green direction, and cheap paints may show a color tinge as well as need more coats. Note that 16mm and I expect 8mm apertures always have radiused corners, not the square corners of 35mm aperture plates, so to look best your masking must follow the radius of your apertures. Suggest at least 3" of masking, to absorb bumping or slight mis-aiming of projector and to "look right".

If Formica (plastic laminate), I'd think it should have as matte a finish as they make. Definitely not gloss, or I expect would get reflections from everywhere and maybe hot spots.

Something you can't do anything about is that matte finishes reflect light over a 180 degree arc. While a lot of it comes back to your audience, some reflects back to the sides of the room and ceiling and floor where no one is, so that light is wasted. Expensive commercial screens have microembossing which can aim almost all of the light back to the audience; this is called gain (over a dead flat screen). The more gain, the narrower your seating can be for full brightness. A really high gain is a glass beaded screen, x2 or x3 I think, which reflects most of the light right back to the projection lens, and anyone off of that axis the least little bit sees a dimmer picture. A local screening room used to have a glass beaded screen, 35mm dual projectors changeover, and, wherever one sat, the picture was always a little brighter on one side than the other and, upon changeovers, the brighter-dimmer sides swapped. Still, the fellow's showmanship was otherwise top-notch, Hammond organ and footlights dimming in correct sequence and etc, and I loved an invitation there.

Sounds like a fun project.