Using SDDS XLR In/Out

[Jeremy Briel]

Hello all! I have a bit of a strange question but hopefully someone might have an answer.

I was a projectionist for quite a few years in the late 90s/early 2000s and had a huge affection for the SDDS processor (and sound). I even have our old SDDS poster on my wall next to me as i type this.

Some years back i bought an old SDDS unit on ebay (DFP-D2000) with the thought of someday using it in my home theater just for nostalgia purposes. I always loved the sound gauges on the front of it and so i had hoped i could run some XLR cables in from an AV processor into the SDDS and get them to light up/move.

My question is really threefold.

- My unit turns on, but there seems to be an error code (e712) on the volume screen. Unfortunately, i can't find any info online about this error. Would anyone happen to know what it means? As a side note, the unit i bought only came with one of the motherboards installed, the DSP one, so maybe i'm just missing one or more of the motherboards? I already replaced the battery on the board btw.

- My hope is to at least run an audio signal from my AV processor's XLRs out into the SDDS unit's XLR inputs and have the led sound gauges light up. Would anyone know if this would work, even if the sound itself wouldn't work?

- If the gauges would indeed light up from the AV processor's XLR audio signal, would it then also be able to pass that audio out through the SDDS unit's XLR outputs and into an amp (using the SDDS unit's bypass option) and actually get sound going in and out of the SDDS unit?

Before i bought another one on ebay, i figured i would first check with someone way more knowledgeable than me to see if it was even feasible.

Appreciate the help!

[Steve Guttag]

I have truly forgotten more than I remember on the SDDS 2000. However, there shouldn't be ANY empty slots in it. It is not going to work at all without them all in and working. I don't believe the 2000's meters work on none SDDS content. The XLRs should feed the sound through with the unit in "bypass" or even if not.

The DFP-D2500, now that one DOES, for sure, use its metters for non-SDDS. It is a rare-bird though. Very few were made.

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The SDDS DFP-D3000, which were the most plentiful, also should move its meters for all content.

[Jeremy Briel]

Ah, thanks so much for the info!

Dang, that's a shame that the meters probably don't work on non SDDS material on the 2000. Not only is that the one i had at my own theater (so i was hoping to be able to use that specific model), but it also seems to be the only one with XLR in/outs. I'm almost tempted to buy another one (with all the cards in it) just to make absolutely sure it doesn't work. lol

Any idea how i'd get sound/audio output from an home theater AV source (pre-amp or receiver) that only has RCA and XLR outs and into the newer SDDS units that only have these kinds of AUX inputs?

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[Steve Guttag]

Make your own cables (I'm pretty sure they were to the THX standard. Odds are, Odyssey/Dargco has a board that would break them out...if not, a standard DB25 breakout board should allow getting them to a terminal block, which you might find easier to work with.

[Jeremy Briel]

I sadly have no experience with that kind of stuff, but i'll definitely look into it and see if i can wrap my head around it. I was hoping Sony or some third party sold some kind of cables. I saw some XLR to DB25 cables and naively thought those might work right out of the box.

I really appreciate the help and insight!

[Steve Guttag]

They are likely going to follow the Tascam "standard" for pinout...which corresponds to current processors like the Dolby CP950. However, Dargco does have a Tascam to THX adapter board too.

[Jeremy Briel]

Took a day to read up more and try to get a better idea of things. I've never set up any theater/audio equipment, i was just a lowly regular part time projectionist. lol So glad you mentioned that board as i would have never known it existed!

A few more dumb questions if you don't mind.

- I saw it mentioned in the manual about shorting pins to get the AUX inputs to work correctly? I don't think i'd want to mess with that, but i did see that it also mentioned i could change a setting the computer menu (if i can even still get the SDDS program) called No Fallback, and then i wouldn't have to short the pins? Does that sound correct?




- If i got this DB25 Tascam to THX converter (plugging it into the AUX In of the SDDS unit), and the DB25 to XLR cable in the picture underneath it (which would then plug into the Tascam/THX converter and into the XLR outputs on the back of my AV receiver), that should be everything i need to get the signal/audio signal to the SDDS unit, as far as you know?



- Would i also need another one of those Tascam to THX converters for the SDDS's AUX outputs too, or could i just use a regular DB25 to XLR cable, like the one in picture above without the converter?

[Jeremy Briel]

Sorry about the pictures. They loaded when i originally checked yesterday but today none of them showed up in the post.

[Ryan Gallagher]

The only way to know if a 3rd party breakout cable is going to be compatible is to compare the pinout diagrams if you can locate them, unless like Steve suggests there is some prior knowledge about what standard certain brands are utilizing (if any).

If you give me couple days (or several), I can pull one of my DFP-D2000's with full card compliment out of storage and check if meters move in bypass mode.

[Jeremy Briel]

Oh man Ryan, that would be so awesome (and helpful) if you could do that whenever you get the chance. No rush at all. Like i mentioned above, if the sound works going in/out of the system that would be amazing, but the main thing i was hoping for was to see if the meters light up using bypass/the XLRs.

On the slight chance it works, it would save me $100s from buying/trying other versions of the unit and all i would have to buy is a much cheaper D2000 with all the cards. I'm just so uninformed and inexperienced with the pin outs, shorting pins, and all that kind of stuff for the DFP3000 version, i doubt i could get it all working on my own.

[Ryan Gallagher]

Oh man Ryan, that would be so awesome (and helpful) if you could do that whenever you get the chance. No rush at all. Like i mentioned above, if the sound works going in/out of the system that would be amazing, but the main thing i was hoping for was to see if the meters light up using bypass/the XLRs.

On the slight chance it works, it would save me $100s from buying/trying other versions of the unit and all i would have to buy is a much cheaper D2000 with all the cards. I'm just so uninformed and inexperienced with the pin outs, shorting pins, and all that kind of stuff for the DFP3000 version, i doubt i could get it all working on my own.

Confirming Steve's memory, DFP-D3000 definitely moves meters. I don't have a break-in cable either to try the aux inputs, but it works on the stereo RCA non-sync pair so I assume it would work for all inputs.

The DFP-D2000 however WILL NOT move meters for by pass signals (in either bypass or non-bypass mode), probably only reacts to the SDDS reader signals... makes sense as it was intended to be an inline upgrade to cinemas that were keeping their primary processor. It is in fact not a cinema processor, but an SDDS signal processor only. As the reader inputs were essentially camera signals, no way to make a custom cable for those and feed it audio.

The AUX in and AUX out is unlikely to help on the D2000, as that too is just a pass through/bypass (according to old forum posts), but is a valid approach on the D2500 or D3000.

Sounds like you'll want the newer units if you want the SDDS aesthetics and moving meters. The newer ones act as a headphone amp... a bit big for on your desk, and noisey fans...... ;-) A clever person could probably do a fan-swap to tame the beast.

Oh and yes, 4 cards installed normally, there is a sticker inside the door of the D2000 to tell you what each slot is for. If you had all your cards i'm sure there would be a way to "bodge" the bypass signal to somewhere else on the cards and have it think it's a SDDS signal and move the meters. But if making a cable is intimidating, that hackery is probably a bridge too far.

IMG_6353.jpgIMG_6354.jpg

[Ryan Gallagher]

Took a day to read up more and try to get a better idea of things. I've never set up any theater/audio equipment, i was just a lowly regular part time projectionist. lol So glad you mentioned that board as i would have never known it existed!

A few more dumb questions if you don't mind.

- I saw it mentioned in the manual about shorting pins to get the AUX inputs to work correctly? I don't think i'd want to mess with that, but i did see that it also mentioned i could change a setting the computer menu (if i can even still get the SDDS program) called No Fallback, and then i wouldn't have to short the pins? Does that sound correct?

The D3000 manual also mentioned you could put the aux channel into "Fallback (*)"... no fallback... or fallback to itself... which would force the aux to play it's non-cinema-processor input and not look for other signals. It does seem like you might need the software to do that, I could not find it in the LCD setup menus.

- If i got this DB25 Tascam to THX converter (plugging it into the AUX In of the SDDS unit), and the DB25 to XLR cable in the picture underneath it (which would then plug into the Tascam/THX converter and into the XLR outputs on the back of my AV receiver), that should be everything i need to get the signal/audio signal to the SDDS unit, as far as you know?

Seems likely yes, if you already have the XLR tascam breakout to pair with it.

- Would i also need another one of those Tascam to THX converters for the SDDS's AUX outputs too, or could i just use a regular DB25 to XLR cable, like the one in picture above without the converter?

That kinda depends if you want the SDDS system is "inline" with your system and you want it to effect things like EQ, volume, or use it's other features. If you just want the meters to be active for the blinky lights and nostalgia purposes, I would recommend "Y" your XLR channel cables and keep a signal path to your system otherwise unmodified. If instead you want to play with all the features you'll have to use the SDDS main or monitor outputs with an adapter like you suggested. In a cinema this normally goes directly to the amps.

Here is an example Y cable for clarity:
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...o-xlr3m-6-inch

[Jeremy Briel]

Thanks so much for testing both (i'm sure it was hassle getting both out of storage)! And just as much, for answering the other questions. Just like with Steve's answers, they helped a ton. I really can't thank both of you enough for trying to help me keep the SDDS dream alive!

Looks like it's time to hit ebay to find a 3000! Shame the 2000 can't be used (other than maybe with the modification that you mentioned that is way beyond my skill level), but at least it looks like i can still get my dose of SDDS aesthetics from the other models.

- Would you happen to have any idea where i can get the SDDS program from, since it looks like i'll need that for the fallback settings?

Good to know i probably only need the THX converter and the breakout cable for the AUX input. I haven't bought the breakout cable yet for the AUX input, as it looks like i'll be using an RCA version instead. Probably this one if it looks okay:

Capture.jpg
I would like to get the sound working in and out of the 3000 if possible, so i think i'll try that first. It would be nice to at least be able to use the volume knob, but having EQ adjustments available as well would be the icing on the cake.

Looking closer at the Dargco Thx to Tascam converter, it says THX out on it and that's on the male side of it, but for the Monitor/System output on the SDDS unit, i'd need a Thx to Tascam converter where the THX out is on the female side. But i can't seem to find any converters anywhere online like that.

- Am i thinking correctly here, or am i missing something? A female side THX to Tascam out converter would plug into the SDDS System/Monitor Output, and then i'd plug in another RCA or XLR Tascam breakout cable to that, which would then plug into and pass the sound to the amps. I was hoping i could just use a Tascam to RCA or XLR breakout cable straight from the System or Monitor output to the amps without any converter, but i guess that wouldn't work as the SDDS outputs (even the Monitor Out?) are still THX outputs? Because it usually goes straight to the amps in a theater like you mentioned, i was thinking the outputs (if even just the Monitor out) was a standard Tascam type output.

Apologies if that's confusing or just a dumb question all around. I really wish they would have explained how all the equipment worked/was set up at the theater i worked at.

[Ryan Gallagher]

Thanks so much for testing both (i'm sure it was hassle getting both out of storage)! And just as much, for answering the other questions. Just like with Steve's answers, they helped a ton. I really can't thank both of you enough for trying to help me keep the SDDS dream alive!

Looks like it's time to hit ebay to find a 3000! Shame the 2000 can't be used (other than maybe with the modification that you mentioned that is way beyond my skill level), but at least it looks like i can still get my dose of SDDS aesthetics from the other models.

- Would you happen to have any idea where i can get the SDDS program from, since it looks like i'll need that for the fallback settings?

That is hosted in the film-tech warehouse , depending on firmware version:

• SDDS setup software for DFP-D3000/DFP-D2500 version 3.0 (1.05 MB - EXE)
• Sony SDDS Windows XP/2000 setup software for the DFP-3000 processor (1.09 MB - EXE)

Though also in the wharehouse here, amusingly SONY still hosts the a D2000 setup software too, but not the later ones that I can find publicly.
https://www.sony.com/electronics/sup...mpueus00000189

Good to know i probably only need the THX converter and the breakout cable for the AUX input. I haven't bought the breakout cable yet for the AUX input, as it looks like i'll be using an RCA version instead. Probably this one if it looks okay:

Capture.jpg
I would like to get the sound working in and out of the 3000 if possible, so i think i'll try that first. It would be nice to at least be able to use the volume knob, but having EQ adjustments available as well would be the icing on the cake.

Looking closer at the Dargco Thx to Tascam converter, it says THX out on it and that's on the male side of it, but for the Monitor/System output on the SDDS unit, i'd need a Thx to Tascam converter where the THX out is on the female side. But i can't seem to find any converters anywhere online like that.

Gender changes are just dumb DB-25 gender adapaters... as long as they are pin-to pin nothing fancy about adding those where needed.

Example Female to Female DB25 adapter, note sometimes fancier ones are warranted if you need the lock screws to engage on both connections.
https://www.showmecables.com/db25-fe...gender-changer

DB25 serial "extension" cables should also be pin-to pin and may be handier depending on the distances between gear, also more likely to have positive locking on both sides. Female to Female will be the most common, but other genders are probably available if needed.
https://www.amazon.com/Jienk-Female-.../dp/B0CJ8NGV7K

- Am i thinking correctly here, or am i missing something? A female side THX to Tascam out converter would plug into the SDDS System/Monitor Output, and then i'd plug in another RCA or XLR Tascam breakout cable to that, which would then plug into and pass the sound to the amps. I was hoping i could just use a Tascam to RCA or XLR breakout cable straight from the System or Monitor output to the amps without any converter, but i guess that wouldn't work as the SDDS outputs (even the Monitor Out?) are still THX outputs? Because it usually goes straight to the amps in a theater like you mentioned, i was thinking the outputs (if even just the Monitor out) was a standard Tascam type output.

Without knowing anything about your amps, but assuming they take either XLR or RCA, that sounds logical indeed.

I don't know if the monitor out is pinned differently or not from main output, you'd have to find some information in the manual there, or maybe another here knows. If you are using it for mains control I would avoid the monitor out, as that is for booth channel monitoring and may or may not reflect B-Chain features such as auditorium fader, delays, EQs etc.

Apologies if that's confusing or just a dumb question all around. I really wish they would have explained how all the equipment worked/was set up at the theater i worked at.

By the time you finish setting one up at home, you'll know more about that processor than most projectionists did back in the day. Enjoy the journey and learning!

[Jeremy Briel]

I meant to say earlier how i never knew that the 2000 unit was only a SDDS signal processor only and not a full cinema processor. What a neat bit of info to know!

Thanks so much for the links to the SDDS software. Now it's time to find a laptop with XP and a serial port to connect to the SDDS unit. lol

I didn't even consider using a regular/dumb female to female adapter for the outputs. I thought even that would need to be custom.

- So essentially:

-From my receiver's RCA pre outs --> RCA to Tascam/DB25 breakout cables--> THX to Tascam adapter --> SDDS Aux input

-From the SDDS System output --> female to female adapter --> THX to Tascam adapter --> Tascam/DB25 to XLR breakout cables --> my amps, which have XLR inputs

-Then it's connect the SDDS unit to an XP laptop through the serial port, run the SDDS software, and change the Fallback settings, and then fingers crossed, meters and sound both working!


I'm guessing since i need to use the THX to Tascam converter on both the SDDS's inputs and outputs, the data flows both ways through that adapter and it isn't one directional only (i think i remember some home theater cables being one directional?)

- Do the 3000 units need 4 cards installed to work properly as well?

And you're absolutely right! I've already learned more from talking with you two guys than all 6-7 years as a projectionist. When i first started there, i was so obsessed with the all the equipment (and just the projectionist experience as a whole), that i came in really early one day around 4am when the tech (i guess who would be like one of you guys!) who originally set up the theater came to adjust/check out some stuff. I walked around with him during the entire time he was there asking all kinds of questions (and just watching him work). He was very nice, but at the time i didn't even know what to ask him, so i didn't learn any of this stuff.

Sadly, my beloved theater shut down a few years ago and they turned it into some laser gun shooting range. :[ They completely removed/changed everything that made it such a magical place. While it sat closed for a few years, i would sometimes grab lunch and sit in my car in the parking lot just to soak in the memories from my time there. One day when i went there to do that, they had started demoing/dismantling the building and so i talked my way inside for one last look around and grabbed some pictures. It was a bittersweet moment. This SDDS adventure is me trying to retain a little bit of that projectionist/theater magic. That's why i appreciate you guys so much.