When your UPS Batteries Fail And You Have A Sold Out Show In Two Hours

[Leo Enticknap]

I do about three NEC router board swapouts a year. I can't remember doing any in a projector younger than five years, but that appears to be when they start to become unreliable. We also sell around a couple of dozen of them a year for installation by others. They are a frequently enough requested part that we keep them in stock. As with the cat745s, Series 2 NECs have now been in service for long enough that we are now starting to see age-related part failures, I guess.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

IMHO, Doremi power supplies have stiff competition from NEC router boards and cat745 certificate batteries (likely because there are a lot of them in the field that never had them changed, and are now getting old enough for the original batteries to fail) for the runner up prize. But agreed that UPS batteries are the clear winner.

Only had three original router boards fail, all in NC-2000's. All in really old projectors...

[Leo Enticknap]

UPS failures have been hands-down the most common failure I have seen in digital cinema, Doremi power supplies being a close second.

IMHO, Doremi power supplies have stiff competition from NEC router boards and cat745 certificate batteries (likely because there are a lot of them in the field that never had them changed, and are now getting old enough for the original batteries to fail) for the runner up prize. But agreed that UPS batteries are the clear winner.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

That explains a lot... All the ones I installed have the bar graph displays. I have a small Tripp Lite regen ups here on my computers, I think 900VA. But not once in two years has the power gone out. Burried cables help.
Edit: Steve, They still make the UPS, but it's been slightly uprated and has a new model number. IN fact the entire line of double conversion UPS's have been re-done. Still have the same display though.

https://www.tripplite.com/smartonlin...SAAEgLEhfD_BwE

[Steve Guttag]

The digital read out versions of the SMART Tripplites are the only version...they reved the product line and when they did...the problems started with it...just like the pull out keyboards. We never had problems on the 5:4 Tripplite pull out consoles...but once they reved the product into a widescreen version...they rip themselves apart and the trackpads go bad quickly. Everytime Tripplite updates a product, it gets significantly worse.

APC costs about 10-20% more for the "like" product from Tripplite (their model numbers are VERY close to make it easier to compare) so if APC proves to be problematic, I'll move away from them. So far, so good. Tripplite is certainly easier to mount (less deep) and Tripplite has a better rack mount system than APC.

Regardless, an ATS will be going in with any UPS I put in.

Oddly, the cheepie APC UPSes I have at home sourced from Amazon on their "Deal of the Day" have been doing the job (including this morning where we lost power for 5-seconds)...no blips on the computers/DVRs.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

Most regenerative UPS's do run on 48 volts including the ones I put in. But in any large broadcast site here you are going to find everything under the sun. From 750 VA to room sized systems. The one in the picture is 2.5 mW capacity and there is a second room about 20 x 30 feet filled with shelves of lead acid batteries. Max run time for 8 DTV transmitters is 30 minutes. Power switches to the UPS and then.they start and warm up the generator for 10 min before switching to it. This is the largest UPS I have encountered. Every theater should have a generator like that...

[Marcel Birgelen]

Most transmitter sites I know use 24V/48V DC setups. Just like most telco sites, that includes mobile cell sites, which all use (-)48V DC. They use this because the backup power setup is as simple as it gets: Just an array of regular 12V/24V batteries and a charging circuit. Most telco and transmission equipment also comes with 48V PSU options.

But yeah, 120/230V AC equipment is creeping in everywhere nowadays...

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

I did'nt use the digital readout versions either, no need for that. The LED bar graphs do a good enough job.
You ought to go over to Transmitter Sites on Facebook and ask some of those guys about their experience with APC. They are not using the inexpensive stuff either, and APC is often supplied with new transmitter systems because its cheaper. They utilize small systems for keeping ancillary gear up, and up to huge systems capable of keeping a 100kW transmitter on the air for an hour or more. You will find like I have that they have little trouble with Tripp Lite gear where they have it. The real key to sucess with these has been keeping the front screen clean and doing regular battery replacement.

[Sean McKinnon]

Like Steve I am specifying two seperate UPS's served from two different circuits and all of the "primary" equipment goes on one and all of the "Redundant" equipment goes on the other in my multi screen/multi core Q-Sys systems. I have been using the MIT spike arrestor on lamp power. I do not know how much they actually help but I cant think of any lamp power supply failures on an install that has them... thoughts?

[Marcel Birgelen]

The current double-conversion APCs are actually originally of the MGE design, at least over here in Europe and they're a lot more reliable than your average "line-interactive" APC UPSes. I've also been using STS/ATSes systems for HA setups for 25+ years now. Still, I don't really like the idea of having big batteries inside the room where the magic happens.

In future multiplex designs (if the multiplex still has a future), where the function of the booth is slowly vanishing, I guess a more datacenter-like approach could be implemented, with a central equipment room with redundant cooling and power for all the central infrastructure. If you centralize your high-availability equipment into a single room, buying a bigger and often far more reliable UPS makes much more sense and you don't spend a ton on extra wiring throughout the building.

[Steve Guttag]

As I said, I won't put in another Tripplite "SMART" series 1000 or 1500 with the digital readout. Their failure point is way too high and they are failing in the charging circuit...something we never saw when the front panel was just LEDs. The Smart Online (e.g. SU1500) have had a better service record though they all will completely shut off due to battery failure leaving one to think the unit is dead.

I, recently, switched to APC due to discussions with others having better luck with them. Mind you, we aren't using the low-end consumer stuff. These are all commercially rated. We use a mixture of line-interactive and double-conversion based on the site and equipment connected. But, if a UPS is going in, so is an ATS.

We're now starting to do Q-SYS where one processor is driving as many as 9-screens worth of audio (it can do more, we just haven't done it yet). That rack has two independent circuits, two double-conversion UPSes, two ATSes, two Q-LAN network switches and two CORE processors. If it goes down, it won't be because just one thing failed! But a hiccup could affect 9 screens worth of audio (hence double-conversion UPS so there is zero transfer time between UPS and Line power). There have been ZERO issues.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

If you use APC I can believe it. Awful stuff! My overall experience with the Digital Cinema gear that we installed has been very good and stands at about 95% reliability. Two servers that lost media blocks were replaced for IMB servers at the customers request. Most of the actual D-Cinema problems have been HD failures, although some customers opted to do preventitive maintainance on those as well. The NEC projectors just chug right along. I was replacing lots of USA series amplifiers starting several years after all the conversions went in and there are still some that need replacing. All of my installs were at Indies, but some of them also have big multiplexs and are scattered all over a 5 State area? Life is good and troubles are few and its allowed me to.mostly retire, but will continue to help.out any customer that calls me. Considering these systems have been in about ten years now and rated life is at about 15 years, much of it is probably going to make it another five.

[Marco Giustini]

My experience matches Steve's and John's - UPS will fail and may not go into bypass automatically (horrible design IMHO). Personally I would have bypassed the UPS physically - I wouldn't have risked connecting very powerful batteries to a potentially faulty unit. But hey. Happy days.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

Actually Dolby power supplies were the most unreliable in Cinema, although there were a couple pretty stable models over the years. I actually do proactively clean the ups at least yearly, if not more often. That perforated steel screen Tripplite uses seems perfect to catch and build up a thick layer of dust, I also change the batteries.every four years. And yes, APC is crap. A perfect example of "you get what you pay for"... The Tripp Lites I use are regenerative UPS's, not fast switch over type. I knew about APC's dismal reliability from my friends in the broadcast industry, and their sites are all well maintained, yet they still failed often. Hence, I knew to stay away from them. so far my record with Tripp Lite is very good over almost ten years standing at just two battery failures.

[John Thomas]

UPS failures have been hands-down the most common failure I have seen in digital cinema, Doremi power supplies being a close second. People just don't proactively change the batteries. Temperature drastically affects the battery lifespan as well. It's often necessary to remove the front grill to fully remove dust, especially on Tripp Lites.

The ATS sounds like a great idea.