Fader adjustments from trailer to feature

[Larry Blake]

Hello all:

My work is the stage earlier than yours—I have supervised post-production sound for over 35 years—and I've always tried to keep in touch with the projection/exhibition end as much as possible.

I'm writing today following up from a chat I had with a supervisor friend of mine yesterday regarding that olde perennial subject: fader levels. Understood that some movies are just INSANELY loud, and can't/shouldn't be played at "Dolby 7" without much discomfort and complaints from the audience. Michael Bay used to be the reference for crazy shit in this manner, but Christopher Nolan has lapped him, and at times (Dunkirk, Tenet) made Bay's mixes sound like Merchant-Ivory.

Most of my colleagues don't do this level of abuse, and I include myself in that list, and it pains us to go into a booth (as when we do a preview) and see all the faders on all screens set to 4.5 or 5.5 . . . and of course we can't cheat City Hall—if we made our mixes for those faders, we'd all be in Nolanville. (Well, aside from being too damn loud, his mixes often have unintelligible dialogue, and his reasons explaining this are bullshit. I have to say that Oppenheimer was a big improvement in all respects. But I digress.)

But first there are trailers, and although it's "legally required" to meet TASA standards for the MPA, even when you're legal there, they are still obscenely loud. I went in person to a two TASA meetings in the early 2000s and was trying to get trailer levels to continue going down, but was shot down. well, ask me about this at some point; long story..

In the Film Era, the act of adjusting levels for trailers and then jumping up for the feature automatically was tougher, but there were methods, no? Certainly with one projectionist per multiplex, doing this manually was a lost bet.

But here we are in the DCP era, and I'm curious to get reports from the front line as to:

a) Isn't it true to most/all servers allow you to easily program level shifts, so playing trailers at 4, and then jumping up to, say, 6.5 for the movie can be easily programmed in. Right?

b) How often is this done these days and what are the respective numbers you set for trailers, and what do you start with for features (barring a Nolan mix)?

Please let me know your thoughts on this and I appreciate the feedback.

BTW, my latest mix is opening next week: Spinal Tap II. Of course, don't stop at 7, go all the way to 11!!

best,


Larry Blake

[Chris Haller]

Larry,

All of my playlist templates for my 21 screens that I program have trailers set to lower levels - 3.5 in certain theaters, and 4.0 at others, and then always bump up the sound for the feature mix.

At my 9 nine screen, standard theaters do 4.0 for trailers and ads, and my default fader setting for features is 5 for kids movies and 5.5 for everything else. Occasionally I'll push it to 6 if its a more tame sound mix and I have time to listen to it in a standard house. Our Dolby Atmos premium screen is 4.0 for trailers, 5.5 for kids features. and 6 or 6.3 for everything else. Occasionally I will push it up to 7.0, and I did most recently to try and pull some more dynamics from the Fantastic Four mix to decent success. Twisters at 7.0 is still the best mix I've run in that house across nearly 2 years of movies..

At my 12 screen, standard theaters to 3.5 for trailers and 4 for kid movies and 4.5 for everything else to pretty great effect. The Dolby Atmos equipped premium screen does 3.5 for trailers, and usually 5.5 for features - I don't get as much time to run features early here, but I've heard good things from the staff on its impact. The Trinnov Ovation 2 equipped Screen X theater is 4 for ads, 5.5 for kids movies and 6 for features. It runs pretty aggressively.

In general I get pretty good feedback from customers on features, but complaints during trailers do happen. I just let customers wait out the pre-show and they're generally pretty happy with the feature volume.

I'd love to run everything at reference level, but that just isn't the way. I'd go deaf, alongside the customers.

[Larry Blake]

Thanks for your feedback!

[Carsten Kurz]

Keep in mind that all audio processors are calibrated to output the same SPL at 7 - but the fader attentuation curves are different below and above 7. This has not been standardised between manufacturers! Except for USLs JSD-60 that, as the latest USL processor, at some point in it's firmware development, switched from the former USL curve to simulating the Dolby curve.
I see MANY Dolby processors set around or even below 4.
Our 'standard' setting for our AP20/25 is 5.5 for features, and 4.5 for trailers/preshow. I looked up the fader curves for some prominent processors and created an Excel sheet, highlighting some prominent fader positions, and I understood why I see so many standard auditoriums with Dolby processors around 4 or even lower.


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There are also very different preshow styles, it seems. In some cinemas, it appears to be common to show trailers with the lights on half, and the audio at a volume that allows conversations.

Sometimes trailers are just nuts. Even arthouse movies. The trouble is, some people seem to think that LEQ(m) 85 is a target level - so they level all their trailers to LEQ(m) 85 no matter what's in it. That's just stupid. The german trailer for 'The Penguin lessons' was levelled to LEQ(m) 85.

[Steve Guttag]

In the film era, there were a couple of processors that allowed for easier fader adjustment. Anything with a digital fader, so the CP500, CP650, from Dolby. Panastereo CSP1200, Sony SDDS D3000 and DTS-6AD, USL JSD80 and even the short lived DSP60 all come to mind. Some took to the theory that they'd run all trailers in Mono and the features in Stereo to allow for the level difference. In the chains I worked for, it was required to move the fader between trailers and feature.

In digital cinema, yes, having separate volumes for every segment is pretty easy and can be automated. In our TMS systems, we have volumes set by segment (Ads, trailers and features). Furthermore, features can get unique volumes, if so needed (sorry Mr. Nolan). I've even been toying with, in Q-SYS systems having the fader, as it is lowered, affect Left and Right more than Center or Surrounds. It is normally the music and effects that drives people up a wall. Another thing I've been toying with is measuring content on the first pass and seeing what its LEQ level is and making suitable adjustments. Another thought is to apply a pretty buital compressor to the preshow and let the full dynamics come through for the feature. The advantage there is, you can set the knee point of the compressor. If the preshow content behaves, it comes through unscathed. If it wants to blow the doors down, well, no!

I'm happy to report, with our better theatres (better acoustics, better speakers), the volume levels are often at or near reference (seriously) for the features. The acoustics and equipment are as much of a perception of "volume" as the content itself. If you have a harsh, high distortion system, the louder stuff is just going to be more painful. I have some theatres where we've redone a screen or two and given that the same person (me) set up all of the theatres...tuned them all with the same analyzer (D2)...the ones with the better equipment and acoustics always tend to run at a higher volume level. Here is a random screen grab of a theatre running with QSC SC-424s, good acoustics:

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The fader is at 6.8...I'd say that is pretty close to reference. The other two theatres, which are smaller, using good but not anywhere as good as the SC-424 are running a bit lower:

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6.2 and 6.4

Obviously, the titles (how they were mixed) play into this as well but I could have done this on any day of the week with most any set of titles...the better theatre will always be running its fader closer to 7 and, with an SPL meter, would show it being truly louder...just not painfully so. When the fader gets closer to reference, you get better dynamics all around. The bass is better...the surrounds are more present.

Now, if Larry Blake mixed the film, 7.0 is definitely doable. No lie, his mixes are just easy on the ears. Back in the film days, I used Oceans 11 as my reference reel. It has all of the digitals and the mix covered all of the bases. Somewhere I have a T-shirt that stated (or words to the effect) "I ran Oceans 11 at 85 and nobody complained." Of course, nobody outside of a tech would know what that meant but so what. I have a Rane T-shirt that reads "Yes, I do know what all of the knobs do" too.

[Ryan Gallagher]

We don't show studio trailers here so can't give any insight there... and are mostly in the back catalog of film except when in festival modes. But having worked with so many studios and festivals... we kinda treat all films the same in that regard. We test all our content in the house, bounce around checking dialog levels, and pick a suitable fader level exclusively based on dialog.

On an AP20, for all the films I operate I typically land between 6.2 and 7.2 in our big room. Even with a freshly dolby tuned room, festival directors will often "push" beyond reference a touch, and our common levels for festival films are 6.8 to 7.6 or so, mix depending. A very full house will easily eat up .2 or more on the fader by reducing harshness with all those squishy bodies. Typically showing each film only once does not leave much room to wait for feedback to get it right.

We have the luxury that our room is tuned every year due to the high profile festival, but also the luxury of time because it's one room and nothing typically in it ahead of the show.

Our only complaints tend to be when a film is mixed as to be intentionally uncomfortable, we tend to honor that intent, and only back off a placebo amount when requested.

[Mike Blakesley]

We have a Trinnov Ovation2 sound processor.

I play the pre-show music at 2.9, the ads at 3.4, the trailers at 3.7, and the feature usually at 5.3. I usually do a test listen to determine the best setting anywhere up to 6.0, but 5.3 is the one that gets used the most. I just think that's where it sounds the best. I look for a dialogue scene indoors, and set it to sound good on that. Everything else falls into place.

If there is one of those badly-mixed "welcome" messages at the beginning of the feature, I'll usually run that at the trailer level. Why they don't set those to the feature level is beyond me.

It has been a long time since anyone walked out during a movie and asked for any adjustments to the volume -- it's probably only happened three or four times in my whole 50 years of running movies for people. More common is the comment at the end: "Wow, that was loud!" which (according to the tone of voice coming from the patron) I often consider a compliment to our sound system. On the other hand, when someone says "That was too loud," that's a complaint, and I'll respond based on what kind of movie it was. If it's an action movie, I'll say "Well, it's an action movie, they tend to be pretty noisy" or something like that. If it's a dialogue-heavy movie I'll say "Really? OK, thanks for letting me know, I'll check the settings."

I have experimented with turning a movie up to 7 when nobody's in the building. While it still sounds good, to me it's just a little too loud. Louder than it needs to be. There is a sweet spot. It's a movie, not a concert. The "very loud" should be reserved for explosions and earthquakes and car chases and gunfights, and voices should sound more natural.

Bottom line, we get basically zero volume complaints (softness or loudness), and 90% of our customers are repeat customers, so I'm sticking with the status quo.

[Harold Hallikainen]

Do the people mixing the movies listen at "7.0"?

On Steve's comment that it's possible to play a feature at 7.0 (or close to it) if the auditorium and sound system are good is interesting. I have heard this before as it's not that it's so loud, but it is distorted. SMPTE has been working on measuring auditorium audio quality for quite a while now. But, can you indeed play a movie at 7.0 in an ideal auditorium? Was the movie mixed that way?

[Ryan Gallagher]

Do the people mixing the movies listen at "7.0"?

On Steve's comment that it's possible to play a feature at 7.0 (or close to it) if the auditorium and sound system are good is interesting. I have heard this before as it's not that it's so loud, but it is distorted. SMPTE has been working on measuring auditorium audio quality for quite a while now. But, can you indeed play a movie at 7.0 in an ideal auditorium? Was the movie mixed that way?

Just anecdotally, yes very possible. We play plenty of them at 7.0 or very near it, and I would call our room far from ideal. Spot and Tech checks for festivals rarely go below 6.8, with objectively qualified people doing the listening.

1200 seat classic vaudeville house with a balcony, less than ideal distances, reflectivity, and sweet spots.

[Marco Giustini]

Such an old subject - thanks for bringing it up.

I'm going to quote Steve here

I'm happy to report, with our better theatres (better acoustics, better speakers), the volume levels are often at or near reference (seriously) for the features. The acoustics and equipment are as much of a perception of "volume" as the content itself. If you have a harsh, high distortion system, the louder stuff is just going to be more painful. I have some theatres where we've redone a screen or two and given that the same person (me) set up all of the theatres...tuned them all with the same analyzer (D2)...the ones with the better equipment and acoustics always tend to run at a higher volume level.

If the auditorium is well done, with good speakers and good EQ, then 7.0 is not a problem - with some exceptions of course. With 35mm I used to run everything between 6.5 and 7 after screening the whole feature for QC - the auditoria were good sounding though.

But volume is also very subjective. In the past, I tuned a (mediocre) room and it sounded "ok" but the owner had their feature running at 5.5. It sounded ok at 7.0 and I showed them. I asked them "is this too loud for you?" and the answer was "no", nevertheless the following day the systems were back to 5.5.

Also: if you walk into an auditorium during a loud scene from a quiet foyer, it WILL sound "too loud". I had this argument with a studio once where a representative walked in during a loud moment and demanded that the movie was lowered to 5.5 claiming it was "the industry standard" (LOL). I was QC'ing the movie from the start and it sounded perfectly fine at 7.0 but obviously I lost that battle!

Also: complaints. As with temperature, there will ALWAYS be someone who finds multichannel, high dynamic sound "too loud" even at 3.0. Unfortunately, volume "5.5" mostly removes those complaints so it's the chosen setting by most people. My point of view is that to make a small minority happy, we ruin the whole experience to everybody else.

Finally: time. In modern days, nobody has time to select a different level for each feature so 5.5 it is.

The bottom line, Larry, is that I don't think there is a solution here. Keep mixing your content so it sounds good at 7.0 and hope that cinemas will do the right thing.

Unfortunately I cannot find anymore the technical note which was distributed to the Projectionists with Wall-E. In that video clip, Mr. Ben Burrt said "and remember: run it at SEVEN on your cinema processor; not 5.5!"

Thanks for trying to connect with cinemas!

Karsten: thanks for the nice volume table, I wasn't aware there was such difference between processors!

[Elia Orselli]

There's an interesting article in SMPTE Motion Imaging Journal May/June 2025 issue about cinema playback level and audience satisfaction: https://mijonline.smpte.org/mijonlin..._june_2025/36/

I think that in addition to the level adopted, it would be necessary to consider the cinema processors calibration: how many installers use correctly calibrated and periodically recertified tools? There are certainly no statistics on this, but I'm afraid that it's not a widespread practice...

[Marco Giustini]

If it was just a matter of good/calibrated tools, that would be solvable.

The issue is that the average "sound tune" is performed in 20 minutes with no listening test at the end besides "a loud trailer".
And I don't necessarily mean to point the finger at the attending engineer here: most of the time that is the allocated time.

[Steve Guttag]

There is a whole parade of factors that go into how a theatre sounds. Seriously, how do people choose the equipment that goes into the theatre? There will always be a cost factor that plays into it. The same goes for how to treat a theatre (acoustically). It is surprisingly tough to get exhibitors to put insulation above the ceiling tiles.

Then there is the battle for the space behind the screen. No speaker company...and I mean none of them, start their speaker design with the thought that making it shallower (and smaller) will make it better. They do these things because that is what exhibitors want to save space. It's not the speaker company's fault. But don't fool yourself into thinking a shallow speaker will ever be as good as its equivalent full size speaker. As it is, they've done an amazing job getting most of the good speakers to be 24-28 inches deep. Add in another couple of inches for batting behind the screen and yeah, you might need to devote a whole 30-inches or so. But no...exhibitors want to believe that they can cut that in half and get good sound...maybe in a small screening room but not in a full sized theatre. You'll have sound, just not as good. The number of good cinema speakers I've heard, regardless of how many "ways" their are (2-way, 3-way...etc.) versus the number of available are a pretty big ratio. Don't cheap out on the speakers or the acoustics.

[Marco Giustini]

it's silly, really. Good speakers last decades and good acoustic will make the sound good for decades. Saving on speakers is really a false economy.

"Congratulations, you've saved 10K, now enjoy 25 years of poor sound and damages"

But hey, in 25 years it's going to be someone else's problem

[Steve Guttag]

The savings on speakers is rarely going to be in in the 5-figure region. Saving on theatre construction, particularly if a baffle wall is in the mix can save a bunch. Then again, with a baffle wall, you can drop your LF and Subwoofer power requirements in half. The clawing for 1-2 feet for behind the screen space makes it all the more silly. They want that extra row of seats, even if they are break-neck seats. And, for that, they want inferior speakers (or to be lied to...told that these shallow speakers are just as good as the regular sized ones...or "good enough." Exhibitors are just like in Ghostbusters. When it comes to getting something for less: "We're ready to believe you."