Bit of an odd one, wonder if this will work/is sensable

[Ben Edwards]

Hi, I volunteer at a community cinema and also make DCPs.

I recently created one for an environmental film and they got back asking me how easy is it to add laurels. I know the answer to this from the perspective of making the DCPs, this is not my question (the DCP will have to be remade).

I had a cheaper option for them, create a short DCP with just the laurels to be played before the main DCP.

So my question, how practical/sensible is this from the perspective of getting projectionists to add them, I know its simple to add t o play list but as this is slightly unusual will the DCP actually get added.

Ime guessing there are a lot of projectionists reading this .

One idea I had was to label it as a ratings card as this is fairly standard (having ratings cards that is).

Ben

[Steve Guttag]

I suggest you change you topic as it violates the rules of the forum (no teaser topics).

[Leo Enticknap]

Any projectionist who doesn't know how to create a SPL with two CPLs in it lacks a basic professional skill needed to do his or her job, to put it mildly. It is not in any way unusual: this is done in pretty much every movie theater, all the time. The only issue would be to provide clear instructions as to whether the extra title CPL is to play before or after the feature. Another advantage to having it as a separate CPL is that it will be small enough for theaters to download, if they have already received the feature on physical media.

[Ben Edwards]

I suggest you change you topic as it violates the rules of the forum (no teaser topics).

Sorry, was not meant to be, its just difficult to describe in subject line. When I click edit on post it does not let me change title, how do I do this?

Ben

[Ben Edwards]

Any projectionist who doesn't know how to create a SPL with two CPLs in it lacks a basic professional skill needed to do his or her job, to put it mildly. It is not in any way unusual: this is done in pretty much every movie theater, all the time. The only issue would be to provide clear instructions as to whether the extra title CPL is to play before or after the feature. Another advantage to having it as a separate CPL is that it will be small enough for theaters to download, if they have already received the feature on physical media.

Thanks, good point on clear instructions.

We are a totally volunteer run cinema so just wanted to check as my experience does not relate to most projection rooms.

Ben

[Jim Cassedy]

<edited> Any projectionist who doesn't know how to create a SPL with
two CPLs in it lacks a basic professional skill needed to do his or her job, to put it mildly..

What Leo says, is 100% true, but the 'gotcha' here is the word "projectionist". The reality these
days is that venues which employ actual projectionists are relatively few. Probability-wise, your DCP is
more likely to wind up in the hands of some overworked assistant manager or corn-popping concession
kid who needs to squeeze booth duties in between all their other tasks. The only phrase worse than
"we'll fix it in post', is 'we'll fix it in projection." Instructions may or may not be read, understood or
followed. At one company I worked for, you were able to send e-mails with a "read receipt", but when
the 'read receipt' arrived back in your inbox, it came with a disclaimer (an all caps) which stated that
it was only a confirmation that the e-mail reached the recipients inbox and was opened, but that didn't
necessarily mean that they actually read it or understood it". Once I got a DCP from a low budget
filmmaker which had an extra intro cpl file which, according to instructions shipped with the DCP,
was to be added to the playlist before the feature. Well, it wasn't shipped in a box that looked like
a DCP, so it was opened by mistake by one of the assistant managers, who then put it on my desk,
but they had lost the paper with the intro instructions on it, so I never saw it. To compound the
situation, neither the DCP or the intro used the ISDCF naming protocols, and the extra file I saw
on the DCP drive was coded as a RATING- - which we never play at my venue, so I had ignored it
and the intro never got attached to the DCP playlist as it should have been.

So, in my opinion, unless you're sure that every venue your (or your clients) DCP will be going to
be played at has somebody who actually knows what they're doing, you've got to assume the
chance that your DCP is going to be handled by the least competent person in the building, who
also may have misplaced or misunderstood any included instructions, and the only way to 'idiot-proof'
your DCP is to re-render it with laurels your client wants, and hopefully you can charge them a bit
of a fee for the extra work. That's what I'd do!

[Ben Edwards]

What Leo says, is 100% true, but the 'gotcha' here is the word "projectionist". The reality these
days is that venues which employ actual projectionists are relatively few. Probability-wise, your DCP is
more likely to wind up in the hands of some overworked assistant manager or corn-popping concession
kid who needs to squeeze booth duties in between all their other tasks. The only phrase worse than
"we'll fix it in post', is 'we'll fix it in projection." Instructions may or may not be read, understood or
followed. At one company I worked for, you were able to send e-mails with a "read receipt", but when
the 'read receipt' arrived back in your inbox, it came with a disclaimer (an all caps) which stated that
it was only a confirmation that the e-mail reached the recipients inbox and was opened, but that didn't
necessarily mean that they actually read it or understood it". Once I got a DCP from a low budget
filmmaker which had an extra intro cpl file which, according to instructions shipped with the DCP,
was to be added to the playlist before the feature. Well, it wasn't shipped in a box that looked like
a DCP, so it was opened by mistake by one of the assistant managers, who then put it on my desk,
but they had lost the paper with the intro instructions on it, so I never saw it. To compound the
situation, neither the DCP or the intro used the ISDCF naming protocols, and the extra file I saw
on the DCP drive was coded as a RATING- - which we never play at my venue, so I had ignored it
and the intro never got attached to the DCP playlist as it should have been.

So, in my opinion, unless you're sure that every venue your (or your clients) DCP will be going to
be played at has somebody who actually knows what they're doing, you've got to assume the
chance that your DCP is going to be handled by the least competent person in the building, who
also may have misplaced or misunderstood any included instructions, and the only way to 'idiot-proof'
your DCP is to re-render it with laurels your client wants, and hopefully you can charge them a bit
of a fee for the extra work. That's what I'd do!

That was what I feared. Thansks

[Ryan Gallagher]

Yeah for festivals it will highly depend on technical capabilities of the festival itself, the screening venue, and related personnel who might be building the SPLs. Does the festival have a tech person? Does the festival do their own thurough QC work and provide instructions to venues? Does the festival permit proper "tech-check" windows for creatives to catch exclusions of things such as this? Yada Yada.

The safe route is to remake the feature DCP. But your instinct of doing it separately is fine if everyone is on a time constraint, you just have to trust the festival and exhibition process more to take that route.

[Carsten Kurz]

The question is, will there ever be a reason to play that original DCP without the laurels?

Also, creating a new DCP with added laurels is not really that much more complicated than creating just the laurels and add the necessary information how to play them. At least if you still have the original DCP-o-matic project intact.
Adding some laurels to the project and creating a new DCP will only take a few seconds or minutes, as the preexisting video and audio will be reused as is, and only the laurels are actually wrapped into the new DCP. There are other options to do that as well, so, depends on what you actually mean with 'cheaper option'.

What you could do to help projectionists to always use both DCPs, if you create the laurels separately, is to name them Part1 and Part2. However, for that to work, you probably also have to rename the existing DCP, which also will need at least another wrapping run. Which again, will go very fast, at least in DCP-o-matic.

[Ben Edwards]

[QUOTE=Jim Cassedy;n49192]

To compound the situation, neither the DCP or the intro used the ISDCF naming protocols, and the extra file I saw
on the DCP drive was coded as a RATING- - which we never play at my venue, so I had ignored it
and the intro never got attached to the DCP playlist as it should have been.
/QUOTE]

You are saying you never play ratings cards, thought this was a (kind of) legal requirement. Am I missing something.

[Tony Bandiera Jr]

[QUOTE=Ben Edwards;n49216]

To compound the situation, neither the DCP or the intro used the ISDCF naming protocols, and the extra file I saw
on the DCP drive was coded as a RATING- - which we never play at my venue, so I had ignored it
and the intro never got attached to the DCP playlist as it should have been.
/QUOTE]

You are saying you never play ratings cards, thought this was a (kind of) legal requirement. Am I missing something.

I think it's the difference between the UK and US ratings systems.

In the US, the MPAA ratings are voluntary (and always have been regarded as suggested guidelines) for theatres to follow and the rating tag was always a part of the physical print (Usually at the VERY end, after the complete credit roll.) The only rating strictly "enforced" was the old "X" rating. A studio CAN legally release a film as "Not Rated" but that has always been commercial suicide as no exhibitors wanted to risk getting in trouble running it. Even in DCP copies, the placement of the MPAA rating is the same so we don't have to deal with it as a separate DCP.

In the UK I understand that the ratings are much more strictly enforced, and please correct me if I am wrong, but films not issued a ratings certificate cannot be shown publicly.

[Ben Edwards]

[QUOTE=Tony Bandiera Jr;n49218]

In the UK I understand that the ratings are much more strictly enforced, and please correct me if I am wrong, but films not issued a ratings certificate cannot be shown publicly.

They are enforced and rating card is at the beginning (a separate DCP at the front). We show unrated films as we are a membership organisation (£1 membership card) .

[Ryan Gallagher]

We don't show rating cards here either (US), unless by accident if included at the end of a print or DCP and we didn't take good notes on when to shutter. In the US i expect they are most common for 1st run cinema chains and ahead of trailers... less common at owner-operator and arthouse/classics cinemas.

[Ben Edwards]

I like them, it settles audience cos they know film isa just about to start