Spotify and SR or matrix decoding?

[Ryan Gallagher]

I've noticed a curiosity in our booth.

We used to pipe walkin music via spotify headphone jack, through a little 8chan mixer, and to U1 non-sync on our 650, that separately fed the 650 preset on our AP20. Practice before my time used to be just to leave the 650 on ALL THE TIME, which lacking diode switches, left the 702 diodes on all the time too.

We had to replace some diodes after the pandemic, which was expensive and annoying to solder, so I created an alternative music method directly to the AP20 Non-Sync 1, meaning we can leave the diodes and 650 in standby except when running 35/70mm shows.

The quirk i'm noticing, is our old method used to, depending on the track, give us full 5.1 decoding on selected tracks. Spotify does not claim to support Dolby SR or other immersive formats, so maybe the 650 was doing it's own matrix decoding (but not on all songs?).

With the new method, we exclusively only get L+R output, and in my reading in the AP20 manual, it seems like only the optical/HDMI formats support using the surround decoder. I can matrix it to L,C,R, or add the surrounds (as a fully copy of the signal), but I am not seeing an option to decode anything were it to be present on non-sync 1 or 2 analog inputs.

Note we don't need the mic input of either system because that is handled by the 8chan mixer.

Is there a way to regain the fuller sound using just the AP20, I would hope for at least getting the subs involved, if no SR decoding if present, (though not sure that was ever what was causing the other channels to become active).

There is also a DMA8Plus in our rack that could conceivably be the 1st device for the music input, but I'd have to investigate how it is routed, It just stays on "film" and is mostly a relic of our system before the AP20.

I suppose windows can do it's own surround adjacent processing if you tell it to, and maybe send the signal out of something that supports more than 2 channels (such as an HDMI input to the AP20 perhaps), but that would make the switch over to the intro mic a little more awkward (extra preset change).

[Carsten Kurz]

Only neo6 will give you signal on the subs. What is the actual source of your spotify - a smartphone or tablet?

We play walkin music through iTunes on a PC (that does other tasks as well). Audio input into the AP20 is through HDMI, and we use neo6 which does an excellent job.
Some of our staff occasionally also uses a spotify client on the same pc.

[Ryan Gallagher]

Only neo6 will give you signal on the subs. What is the actual source of your spotify - a smartphone or tablet?

We play walkin music through iTunes on a PC (that does other tasks as well). Audio input into the AP20 is through HDMI, and we use neo6 which does an excellent job.
Some of our staff occasionally also uses a spotify client on the same pc.

Spotify source is a windows laptop that pretty much only does spotify for us now, it's quite old. It is also what we talk to WinDRAS with etc. It does have an HDMI out but I am hesitant to ask that ancient thing to drive a second "monitor". As is it definitely needs to be replaced with something more modern. But good to know the HDMI method works.

[Carsten Kurz]

Even if old, it might become another source for static backdrops, intermission slides, or the odd power-point presentation. Neo6 works really good.

- Carsten

[Frank Cox]

Colour me confused.

Google tells me that neo6 is a pocket knife, neo6 software does logistics management for trucking companies, and you can get neo6 as some kind of built-in processor mode on soundbars for home theatre systems.

So what am I missing here?

[Carsten Kurz]

It's dts neo:6, and it's a feature of the AP20/AP25 cinema processors. It can upmix stereo non-sync sources to 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1

https://www.lifewire.com/dts-neo-6-1846892

That is the same method as on sound bars or other home theatre systems. It is only applied to non-sync sources on an AP20/AP25.

[Frank Cox]

Ah. That actually looks pretty cool.

[Sascha Roll]

You can use matrix Decoding with or without Bass Extension on the AP20, Using Nonsync. Cannot Post a Screenshot atm but it's dedinitely no Problem.

[Ryan Gallagher]

You can use matrix Decoding with or without Bass Extension on the AP20, Using Nonsync. Cannot Post a Screenshot atm but it's dedinitely no Problem.

I read in the manual that bass extension was a global thing and would impact all presets.

and to be clear, I don’t think Neo6 is available to the two analog rca pair non-sync sources. I think it only appears on the decoders list when looking at optical and hdmi sources. That was my crux, as we are using rca stereo pair currently. Can’t even get to a decoders list from a preset using the stereo pairs, unless I just missed it in the UI somewhere.

[Ryan Gallagher]

Even if old, it might become another source for static backdrops, intermission slides, or the odd power-point presentation. Neo6 works really good.

- Carsten

True, although our install does not currently route alt video through the AP20 switching features at all, except to provide it the audio. It is a bit wonky, there was a crestron for video switching, but they had so many problems with it, it is now bypassed. Alt sources get plugged directly into the christie, or split to feed AP20 and Christie independently.

[Leo Enticknap]

I last used an AP20 in 2017 (at the Egyptian), and since then have installed two AP25s, the last of which was just before the pandemic, so my memory is somewhat rusty; but like those of others here, I believe that it can't do matrix decoding / upscaling from nonsync sources. One of the reasons that I like Q-Sys for arthouse/specialist sites is that it can do that for anything.

The DMA8+, however, can apply ProLogic upmixing to any of its inputs. Again, at the Egyptian, we had the DCP media block's AES3 output going through the DMA8+ and from there via analog 7.1 into the AP20, to give us the ability to upmix "kid with a Mac" 2.0 DCPs made for low budget festivals, student events, etc. The obstacle is that the DMA8+ does not have any convenient analog audio in for a nonsync player. Your options are 5.1 or 7.1 (can't remember) balanced analog in via a DB25 jack, 2.0 coaxial S/PDIF via a BNC jack, and 2.0 optical digital via a Toshiba Link connector. Neither of the latter two are commonly found on consumer audio equipment anymore, so you might need to make up a cable or adapter to get the 2.0 analog out from your Spotify player into channels 1 and 2 of the DB25 analog input, or find an analog to digital converter to use either the coaxial or Toshiba Link digital inputs. But if you can do that, there is your nonsync upmixing solution.

[Carsten Kurz]

Hi Leo,


both AP20 and AP25 have multiple matrix and upmix options - first, the mentioned dts Neo:6 for digital non-sync sources (HDMI, TOSLINK, S/P-DIF), and then, explicit matrix decoding for non-sync and AES inputs, plus explicit matrix decoding for surrounds (ES type). Plus, of course, matrix for SR if the film-card is installed. Using HDMI or TOSLINK or S/P-DIF for walkin/non-sync also prevents potential hum or digital noise problems which often occur when analog outputs of notebooks are used.

[Carsten Kurz]

You can find all these options in the setup menu chart:


Bildschirmfoto 2025-06-07 um 13.05.41.png

[Sascha Roll]

IMG_20250607_144246.jpg

IMG_20250607_144303.jpg


IMG_20250607_144319.jpg

That's what the NonSync Option look like with the newest AP20 Software.

[Ryan Gallagher]

Thanks Carsten, Leo, and Sascha, I’m guessing I never managed to get to the “decoder options” tab from the non-sync 1 format setup, I’ll look again tonight. Maybe that button doesn't appear until you have ticked "matrix decoding" in the routing the interface, and that was why I missed it. I think I only briefly put it in that mode when poking at it and didn't get other active SR channels immediately so I reverted.

Leo, Pro-Logic... it's been so long I totally forgot about that term! That badge used to be on everything! (But it does probably explain why in our old setup I was seeing occasional decoding either coming from CP650 or the U1 (being passed through the DMA8plus perhaps, unless the 650 could do it too). Neo6 is equivalent to Dolby Prologic IIx according to this Sony page which lists a bunch of the decoders. Obviously If I can keep everything in the AP20 it is preferable to roping in our older equipment for older decoding/upmixing methods.

A list of codings and decoders over on this Sony page:
https://www.sony.com/electronics/sup...icles/00025115

Anyway it sounds like we have music upmixing options. I'll consider upgrading our path from the laptop to digital format too, but right now it's nice having those volume controls at the analog mixer for traditionally/manually managing fades and mic cues, assuming I can get upmixing working for music even though it has an analog non-sync path.

I've been meaning to add and test a PC HDMI audio method too though, specifically for those "student film" situations Leo alludes to... or when there simply just isn't time to convert someone's content to DCP (which I have been prone to doing a lot of lately). Not using the video routing features of the AP20 makes the task more complicated than it should be... probably need another HDMI splitter, or switch to doing it proper and have the alt hdmi sources route through the rack. Our SDI dry-lines land at the projector currently, booth content machine HDMI goes there too without going to the rack first. Only blu-ray hdmi source is conveniently located.