Barco - icmp x - caddies

[Allan Barnes]

STRANGE Barco doesn't sell just the CADDIES for Hard Drives. You must buy the entire KIT with new drives from them. My new ICMP X didn't come with drives OR even empty caddies.

[Leo Enticknap]

When ordering an ICMP, you have to specify if you want drives with it, and if so what size. There are use cases in which you wouldn't need them, e.g. if you are ordering an ICMP to replace a failed one, or upgrading from a + to an X (in which case you would need to reinitialize the drives, but you could re-use them), etc. etc.

There have been discussions here in the past about trying to obtain the drive holders from third parties, but IIRC, no-one was able to identify the model number and any vendors. Obviously this would potentially be useful information for someone wanting to keep a spare set.

The bottom line is that all the server manufacturers make big margins on the sale of drives, and therefore have developed various tactics to dissuade you from trying to use drives bought from third parties. Those tactics include using proprietary hardware to mount the drives in the servers, that is difficult if not impossible to obtain separately from the drives themselves, and/or from third parties.

[Steve Guttag]

I would say that some are more aggressive than others about using one's own drives. Dolby publishes an, occasionally, updated list to "approved" drives that they have tested. GDC, I believe, will just tell you what drives they are using. Barco went from "you must buy your off-the-shelf drives from us" to publishing what was approved to, you MUST buy your drives from us, again. They claim that only the ones they supply will have the right/tested version of firmware that will work. It doesn't mean that off-the-shelf drives won't work but they won't guarantee those. To me, that is a HUGE "ding" on the server to compel someone to buy an off-the-shelf part like that. It's a consumable and it isn't like Barco (or whomever) is making the part.

[Ryan Gallagher]

Extortive pricing is an understatement.

Strong’s price for 3x 2TB
https://strong-tech.com/shop/project...-icmp-x-barco/

3x 1TB is a bit more reasonable at $1425.

[Steve Guttag]

Note, without having to raise prices, Barco is now doubling their drive size for the ICMP-X (and beyond). So, the old 3x1TB is now a 3x2TB and the old 3x2TB is now a 3x4TB. My, doesn't seem "thrifty" now?

[Marcel Birgelen]

The problem is, without caddies, you have to buy the drives from them, even if you buy the cheapest option, only to replace it with your own drives later.

Has anybody ever found the OEM that's producing those caddies for them? For most common server models, there are sites that sell OEMs by manufacturer, but for most ICMPs/integrated servers they're more like unobtainium.

Manufacturers are starting to lock down their equipment seems to be a renewed trend. Synology recently started to limit certain features to "certified drives", as in drives bought via them...

[Ryan Gallagher]

There was a prior thread specifically about these Barco caddies, while I’ve had luck determining other system caddies OEMs, these Barco ones are much harder to ID (right now).

Some may be compatible, experimentation required, but the face panel design is not a match, and might be the custom part.

[Leo Enticknap]

They claim that only the ones they supply will have the right/tested version of firmware that will work.

To be fair, that's not the wording I've heard: it more a case of "we can't guarantee that non-approved drives will work, and using them will void the warranty."

IMHO, there are only two use cases for which buying drives from the server manufacturer likely makes sense. 1 - if the server is still in warranty and you want to avoid any possible dispute in the event of a claim (but see below), and 2 - if you are replacing a single, prematurely failed drive, and need another of the exact same model to keep the RAID controller happy.

The warranty issue is a thorny one. The law covering the sale of goods to consumers in most jurisdictions (e.g. in California, the Song-Beverly Consumer Warranty Act, Cal. Civil Code §§ 1790-1795.7) only allows a warranty claim to be rejected because unauthorized parts were used if those parts caused the problem that is the subject of the warranty claim. So if I had unauthorized drives in my DCP server and its certificate battery went flat, for example, the manufacturer could not refuse the warranty claim. But if there were playback glitches caused by trying to use consumer desktop drives in a RAID, then they could.

However, the law governing warranties included with goods that are sold from business to business is substantially different in many jurisdictions, and it is possible that claim denials arising from the use of unauthorized parts could be legal, even if those parts could not have caused the fault that gave rise to the warranty claim (I can't find a clear answer, either in the Uniform Commercial Code, or California law, from a brief look around online). For this reason (and also because IANAL, and therefore cannot and should not try to give anyone legal advice), I would always recommend to customers that they use manufacturer approved drives in any DCP server that is covered by an active warranty. But for one that isn't and if you're replacing the entire set, then as Ryan's posting and link above demonstrates, you'd have to be clinically, straitjacket and rubber room insane to buy a set of approved drives for $3,345 rather than WD Red 2TB SSDs at well under a grand for the set (for example).

[Steve Guttag]

With the Barco ICMP series, often its warranty can be tied to the projector and, even on its own, can be up to 10-years (beyond the reasonable life of even Enterprise grade drives (often warranted to 5-years with most consumer drives warranted to 1-year). So, odds are, you will need drives before your 10-years may be up...buying new drives from Barco would be financially insane, as we have discussed above. But should it jeopardize your server's warranty for non-drive issues? I bring this up since, even with extended warranty, drives are, specifically, excluded as they are a consumable. Now, in the first 2-3 years (depending on when you bought your projector), yeah, everything is in warranty and you'd have to spend money to get a different drive so use the original Barco warranty to cover replacement drive(s).

Is the server so marginal that it requires just the right drive to work? And are the drives that Barco sources more suited than the same drives (make/model/version) that one could source from the typical suppliers? How is this not a money grab? It is certainly disappointing.

[Carsten Kurz]

It's easy to make your own sleds for the ICMP, the mechanically necessary part is very simple. But, I guess most exhibitors will not go this route.

[Jim Cassedy]

<edited> Extortive pricing is an understatement.

My eyes nearly popped outta their sockets when I saw $760 for two liters of Barco coolant.
I'm sure there must be a reason for charging that price. (Other than "because they can" )
But to me it just looks like two bottles of diluted antfreeze/ethanol, and some plastic tubing
and a syringe that looks exactly like some of the 'hardware' I got for free from the hospital
when they sent me home after a surgery a few years back.


BarcoCoolant.jpg

I'm

[Allan Barnes]

THANK TO ALL for the education and knowledge.

[Steve Guttag]

Jim, the price you saw was for the "kit" that includes the bicycle pump, lid with schrader valve, hoses, syringe...etc. The coolant itself, while pricey is not THAT pricey.

[Leo Enticknap]

If you want to put together your own kit, everything apart from the reservoir cap with the Schrader valve in it is easily obtainable from third parties.

The Series 2 quick release hose couplings are made by CPC (Colder Products Company); the female piece is model no. NS4D17004, and the male is NS4D42004 (thank you Steve, for providing this info on F-T in another thread many years ago!). I don't know what the Series 1 couplings are. The last time we bought some of the Series 2 there was a minimum order of 20 of each, but for a tech who regularly services Series 2 Barcos and NECs, it's likely worth the investment. I replace around 2-3 leaky or stiff sets a year. You'll also want some hose clamps. I prefer Jubilee clips to the spring type: either are available from Amazon or Home Depot.

You'll want some 3/8" ID hose, to make up your drain hoses with.

You can get a bicycle pump from any Walmart for a few bucks, and syringes from any drugstore (as long as you don't want them with needles, no questions asked). Note that you don't need the syringe to flush a Series 2 Barco, only the Series 1 pressurized circuit.

Next is some "Asian Blue" automotive coolant. Fill a used Barco one liter coolant bottle with two thirds of this to one third of distilled water. The result performs indistinguishably from the stuff Barco sells. When maintenance C next comes due, you should see that the light engine temperatures with the lamp running are completely within the normal range. If you compare to the same model of projector with the same model of lamp with Barco coolant in it, the numbers will look almost identical.

The only sticking point if you don't have one is the reservoir cap with the valve in it. It should be possible to make one easily enough, by taking a generic cap, drilling a hole in it, and installing a valve. What I don't know is the spec (ID and thread count) of the reservoir cap. If anyone does, that would be useful information: I've come across several now that are either cracked or have rotting rubber gaskets in them. I'd love to replace them, but not at the price Barco likely charges.

You should also put a small funnel in the kit, so as to avoid spilling coolant when refilling the reservoir.

To flush and refill a DPxK-xxB projector, you can get away without the valve cap. After draining the two sections of the circuit, reconnect everything, fill the reservoir, run refill mode, and the pump should prime by gravity. However, the level in the reservoir will drop to almost zero very quickly, so be ready with the funnel and the bottle to top up. But I've found that this won't work with a DP2K-xxC: you have to restore the connection from the pump's output to the light engine's input, and then use the bicycle pump to push new coolant through the pump and the light engine before reconnecting the light engine to radiator output and running refill mode. If you don't, the pump won't prime and you won't see any agitation in the reservoir.