AVATAR 2 – Old 48 FPS Test KDM Received Again, But No New Content?

[Shibu Paul]

Hi all,

We just received a KDM for the AVATAR 2 – 48 FPS test content, but it seems to be the same version we received prior to the original release
no new 4K 3D HFR content has arrived yet, even though the film was officially released in that format.

[Kyle Addy]

No new content was issued for this test.

Avatar2_TST-2D-48fps_F_EN_EN_US_51_2K_TCS_20220112_TCS_SMPTE
Avatar2_TST-2D-48fps_F_EN_EN_US_51_4K_TCS_20220112_TCS_SMPTE
Avatar2_TST-2D-48fps_F_EN_EN_US_ATMOS_2K_TCS_20220210_TCS_SMPTE
Avatar2_TST-3D-48fps_F_EN_EN_US_51_2K_TCS_20220112_TCS_SMPTE
Avatar2_TST-3D-48fps_F_EN_EN_US_51_4K_TCS_20220112_TCS_SMPTE

We found that in some cases we had to contact Deluxe to receive 3D KDMs for some of our 3D auditoriums becuase Deluxe did not have them listed as 3D capable on their portal even though we've been booking 3D content in those auditoriums for years.

[Brandon Wood]

I saw these in the Deluxe portal, downloaded them, unzipped them, and loaded them on a flash drive, but our server doesn't see the files at all. Am I doing something wrong? It sees the other DCPs (random trailers and ads) so it's not the flash drive format or anything. We're still milking a Dolby DSS200 server and a Christie CP-2000ZX projector so I don't think we can do 48fps anyway. Should I even be bothering with this test content?

[Dave Macaulay]

No. As far as I know, neither SDI servers or S1 projectors can do 48fps.

[Steve Guttag]

48fps was a DCI spec from day-1. 30fps was not. All projectors and servers were to support 24 and 48fps. The realities are, 48fps wasn't a top priority for the S1 stuff and how well implemented the 48fps was varied and you may find that while it supports 48fps, at some level, it may not support the data rate that a current DCP will supply.

[James Gardiner]

All S1 systems support 48fps. As all S1 support 3d, which is basically 48fps but with glasses so each eye sees a different sequential frame.
So, technically and S1 projectors can play 48fps, you are just using typical 2d macro/channel selection and no glasses.

so, for example, copy a 3D macro, and change the LUT lookup to be the same as 2d show. Play and don't use glasses. "SHOULD WORK"
But who knows, some technical hitch may exist. But technically, the hardware can do it.

[Christos Gartaganis]

Please note that 48 fps 2D playback in S1 systems is limited to10-bit color depth.

[Steve Guttag]

And 4:2:2 chroma subsampling. The second SDI cable is normally getting the extra 2-bits and 0:2:2 for the full 12-bit 4:4:4. In 3-D and, in HFR on an S1, one does give up something (I've NEVER seen anyone notice a difference between single and dual-link SDI.

Back on the Ang Lee stuff, we did tests on the DSS200/CAT862 (with Barco projectors...S2 and maybe S1) for 60fps. If the content has the right data rate, it worked. You, basically, put the server into 3D mode. Change the projector color space to MXFI, change the 3D file to either a 1:1 or a 2:2 using Line Interleave (first line left, second right).

I don't recall testing it for 48fps 2D but I would presume it works...again, if the content data rate works with the server at 48fps. One should experiment before committing. The Ang Lee tests were really good to determine what works. They had a flying square that moved across the screen...you took a picture of it. The square should be white (or you have your color space wrong) and you should see several adjacent squares filled. if you had any voids, it wasn't working.

This is a fail (alternating squares):

image.png

This is a fail (alternating squares and wrong color space):

image.png

This is a pass:

image.png

Of course, after all of the testing and proving we had a working solution, they decided to not release it in 60fps HFR and movie bombed on top of that.

But, if Avatar 2 would issue a test like that using the exact same DCP formatting as the feature, it would be a good test to ensure that older systems can support the 48fps 2D content without issue.

[James Gardiner]

Now, the issue here is. Yes, you are dropping away from 4:4:4 (4:2:@) if doing 48fps on a S1. Is that a compromise the studios are happy with?
Just because it can be done, does not mean it's supported by the studios and they will supply a KDM to play any movie that way.

[Carsten Kurz]

We already received a long list of legacy systems that Disney was going to exclude from the AVATAR 3 HFR release. Among it, even systems like ShowVault/IMB and Sonys (which were 60fps and high datarate capable from the start). Now they are back with testing the same material as with AVATAR 2. Maybe someone noticed how many systems they actually excluded (essentially, ALL series 1, all series 2, and all Sonys). What could be so different about AVATAR 3 HFR vs. AVATAR 2 HFR?

[Steve Guttag]

Now, the issue here is. Yes, you are dropping away from 4:4:4 (4:2:@) if doing 48fps on a S1. Is that a compromise the studios are happy with?
Just because it can be done, does not mean it's supported by the studios and they will supply a KDM to play any movie that way.

They were good with it on all of their 3D releases. At the commercial theatre level, 10-bit 4:2:2 is going to be at the bottom of the visible differences list.

[Carsten Kurz]

And again - they are not excluding AVATAR 3 from series 1 - they are excluding AVATAR 3 HFR from series 1. So really, who cares, everyone can still play the 24fps version in 2D and 3D.

[James Gardiner]

Carsten:
So yes, excluding Avatar3 at HFR (48fps) means, they are excluding the 4:2:2, 48fps capability of S1 players/projectors. Which I am not surprised of at all. From my perspective, we were just discussing if it was possible. it is, but not supported by the studios.

So, S1 systems are limited to the good old 24pfs as we use every day.

The question now, from my standpoint. Is how many cinema owners are interested in even showing HFR 48fps 2D? I think its fine, but others say it looks like a soap opera and would never show it.
But then again the 48fps is part of the surreal aspect of the Avatar world.

I'll probably just play HDR and not bother with 3D. The equipment is only ever used or Avatar. And going out to check it all works again is a big effort for one film.

[Shibu Paul]

Hi all,

The Test DCP is now available on the Deluxe portal for your review. Please log in to access the files and verify as needed.

[Carsten Kurz]

Carsten:
So yes, excluding Avatar3 at HFR (48fps) means, they are excluding the 4:2:2, 48fps capability of S1 players/projectors. Which I am not surprised of at all. From my perspective, we were just discussing if it was possible. it is, but not supported by the studios.

Not only is it not supported by the studios, there are also no standard presets available on S1 installations to support it. So, before you even come to try the test material, the typical exhibitor needs to source and pay a technician who is able to create presets on S1 systems that support the frame rate. And we are not even talking about other aspects of that DCP that may break playout. We know that even (some) CAT745 were technically able to play HFR, but failed during tests because the codestream was incompatible.