A new low, even for AMC

[Jesse Skeen]

That’s pretty sad, you’d think any theater at a place owned or run by a movie studio would have the absolute highest presentation standards, ever.

[Mike Blakesley]

We went to the movie “Ferrari” at the AMC 24 dine-in at Disney world. It’s the first time this place has let me down. Seats were dirty, sticky spots on the armrests, etc. obviously not cleaned lately. Concession was mostly grab’n’go with one kid running a checkout counter. Soda (Coke freestyle) was semi decent. Screen has no masking so the picture, which consists of 75% dark scenes in this movie, looked washed out. Sound was good though, so there was that at least.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

There's always Netflix, that's where disgruntled Hollywood directors go now, isn't it? Or if you want to make sure somebody rich pays for it but absolutely nobody watches it, there is AppleTV.
Also, the Korean movie industry is really up and coming, so if you can, maybe change the setting somewhat? Or if you don't want that, you should convince them to make "Hollywood Style" movies, just like the Italians did back in the heyday of the Spaghetti Western. Maybe entire new genres could come out of it: The Kimchi Comedy or the Bulgogi Drama?
Furthermore, you don't seem to have your Hollywood Accounting in place. Instead of paying the artist, composers and other license holders their six-plus figures, you promise them a stake in the profit. As a good representative of the Studio System you then make sure the movie makes absolutely zero profit, no matter what the box office may indicate.



For the novel, if you only reference the song and maybe quote a few lines of the lyrics, you should be fine. There are no copyrights on references and quotations, as long as they're reasonable and to the point, are also exempt from copyright.

I think streaming is actually killing the exhibition business to a large degree. I've recently seen polls of how many people in what age range go to the movies as well as the same thing regarding streaming. Neither of the sets of figures were not good. A very low percentage even have streaming services to begin with and and even fewer subscribe to the Netflix's and Paramount+'s that are out there. Amazon has the highest percentage but that's likely artificially inflated because it's included with Prime. Overall it's looking pretty bleak. When I went to Ferrari the other day, there were two other attendees other than Paula and myself. Yet the ever popular shopping mall where we went barely had any parking spots and a new parking garage is under construction. No way was everyone at Cheese Cake Factory. the next closest entity before you actually go into the mall itself... Business is down, and studios are being bought up... Not such a great biz any more.

[Tony Bandiera Jr]

There's always Netflix, that's where disgruntled Hollywood directors go now, isn't it? Or if you want to make sure somebody rich pays for it but absolutely nobody watches it, there is AppleTV.
Also, the Korean movie industry is really up and coming, so if you can, maybe change the setting somewhat? Or if you don't want that, you should convince them to make "Hollywood Style" movies, just like the Italians did back in the heyday of the Spaghetti Western. Maybe entire new genres could come out of it: The Kimchi Comedy or the Bulgogi Drama?
Furthermore, you don't seem to have your Hollywood Accounting in place. Instead of paying the artist, composers and other license holders their six-plus figures, you promise them a stake in the profit. As a good representative of the Studio System you then make sure the movie makes absolutely zero profit, no matter what the box office may indicate.



For the novel, if you only reference the song and maybe quote a few lines of the lyrics, you should be fine. There are no copyrights on references and quotations, as long as they're reasonable and to the point, are also exempt from copyright.

LOL Netflix might be the best option if it ever makes it to a video/film project. I won't ever support Apple though, I'm sure you saw my thread on the MP3/4 player debacle at the race track.

The setting would be difficult if not impossible to change, it would only work in a US or possibly UK culture (the UK setting wouldn't make the characters as interesting, as the UK sensibility with wicked humor and "taking the piss out of somebody" is not at all common or PC here, and one of the leads is VERY much not PC. That's what drives the main storyline.)

Funny you mentioned the Korean cinema...when I worked for a university here, we ran a LOT of Korean films (the director of the program was Korean, go figure..) and many were very well done, both visually and storywise. I could even follow the story without needing the subtitles.

The points option is a good idea, but I don't think most clearinghouses will accept that kind of deal. Especially on a no-name writer's work. But worth asking for. I can surely see my project relying heavily on "Hollywood Accounting" to make it show as a success and not a flop.

I will be sneaking some of the lyrics into the dialog between the two leads at a few points, as they accurately express the conflicts between the two.

Anyways, 'nuff said on this. I've already derailed this thread long enough.

[Marcel Birgelen]

My storyline is pretty much too intense (sexually and otherwise) for "mainstream" Hollywood (which is what I intended). I did have contacts at a certain well known "independent" studio, and I did carefully discuss some of the elements of the story with their project team, and they are (probably now were, since it was literally 18 years ago) interested in discussing the feasibility of making it into a feature length film. I have pretty much abandoned that idea as one of the stipulations for filming would be that a specific song, rearranged, MUST be in the film as it was the genesis of the story (and appears in the climactic scene). I am pretty sure the artist involved would demand millions in licensing fees if they even allow it.

There's always Netflix, that's where disgruntled Hollywood directors go now, isn't it? Or if you want to make sure somebody rich pays for it but absolutely nobody watches it, there is AppleTV.
Also, the Korean movie industry is really up and coming, so if you can, maybe change the setting somewhat? Or if you don't want that, you should convince them to make "Hollywood Style" movies, just like the Italians did back in the heyday of the Spaghetti Western. Maybe entire new genres could come out of it: The Kimchi Comedy or the Bulgogi Drama?
Furthermore, you don't seem to have your Hollywood Accounting in place. Instead of paying the artist, composers and other license holders their six-plus figures, you promise them a stake in the profit. As a good representative of the Studio System you then make sure the movie makes absolutely zero profit, no matter what the box office may indicate.

If you release your novel or movie commercially you will probably have to arrange some kind of licensing with the songwriter (and possibly but not necessarily with the artist who performs it). You should have that checked out by a good lawyer who specializes in copyright law before the fact, though, since there's a really big hammer there.

For the novel, if you only reference the song and maybe quote a few lines of the lyrics, you should be fine. There are no copyrights on references and quotations, as long as they're reasonable and to the point, are also exempt from copyright.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

Went to see Ferrari yesterday, and I finally found a decent local Plex to go to. It's an older Regal 16 screen that's just a couple miles from me. I know it is also 4k laser as well, and appeared to be using Barcos. One of our Film Techers did the conversion there right before Covid. The only downside is that it's at a very busy mall and you need to allow extra time to find a parking spot and walk. The attached 5 story parking garage was already full at noon on a Wednesday. But there is another parking garage under construction. They also do run classic movies... No more AMC for me!

[Tony Bandiera Jr]

If you release your novel or movie commercially you will probably have to arrange some kind of licensing with the songwriter (and possibly but not necessarily with the artist who performs it). You should have that checked out by a good lawyer who specializes in copyright law before the fact, though, since there's a really big hammer there.

I had done so many years ago to find out the potential costs...it cost me $400 just to make the inquiry! They had handled many clearances for the artist in question and assured me that the clearance would be in the mid to high six figures. PLUS since I was doing a re-arrangement (that I could self-edit from my source recording) that additional fees would have to be paid to the other performers in that particular recording. It was going to be a major budget line-item, even for a studio film, and for an indie production, the music clearance costs would have been a serious percentage to swallow.

And of course, as you suggested, a lawyer will have his fingers in the pie as well. So that ONE song, for an indie production, could easily reach 30-40% of the total budget.

[Frank Cox]

If you release your novel or movie commercially you will probably have to arrange some kind of licensing with the songwriter (and possibly but not necessarily with the artist who performs it). You should have that checked out by a good lawyer who specializes in copyright law before the fact, though, since there's a really big hammer there.

[Tony Bandiera Jr]

The drink status thing must be more regional. The bars around me in Idaho don't seem to have that kind of environment. The majority are laid back, kinda country, mainly locals who smoke and don't seem to drink to excess, with the occasional tourist dropping in. Oh, and they all are smoking cigs. I haven't been to any in the bigger cities (like Idaho Falls) so I can't vouch for those, but they probably have more of the "status" types there. (As well as college kids.)

I have been working on a novel for some time now, and one of the main story elements is the relationship between the two leads. One is struggling with his sexuality (and is very arrogant, in denial and socially inept) and the other is quite comfortable with his, and has better social skills. The tensions between the two have been relatively easy to write so far, but there will be a point where writing will become more difficult as they grow closer to each other. My storyline is pretty much too intense (sexually and otherwise) for "mainstream" Hollywood (which is what I intended). I did have contacts at a certain well known "independent" studio, and I did carefully discuss some of the elements of the story with their project team, and they are (probably now were, since it was literally 18 years ago) interested in discussing the feasibility of making it into a feature length film. I have pretty much abandoned that idea as one of the stipulations for filming would be that a specific song, rearranged, MUST be in the film as it was the genesis of the story (and appears in the climactic scene). I am pretty sure the artist involved would demand millions in licensing fees if they even allow it.

Of course now the studio system has serious competition thanks to digital (one of the very few good things I can say about digital BTW) so I could simply make my film on digital, make a DCP and distribute it in a few different ways. I probably won't live long enough to see that happen though.

And to make this post somewhat on topic, I can say for certainty that my distribution terms would exclude American Monkey Cinema locations.

[Randy Stankey]

I don't mean to imply that the observation applied universally. I'm sorry if I gave that impression.

There are plenty of people who just drink what they want without trying to impress others. I guess it has more to do with the style of the place you are in. Some bars are trendy. Others are more casual. I'd say that it happens more frequently in trendy bars than in casual ones.

Still, in my days growing up in the bar, I remember people being described by what they drink. (e.g. Some guy drinking Molson vs. some other guy drinking Southern Comfort Manhattans.)

Maybe it has more to do with the way a person is perceived because of the amount of money they spend on drinks. Liquors like Grey Goose or Hennessey are more expensive than the standard "well liquors."

[Mike Blakesley]

People often seemed to hold their drinks out for others to see as if they were advertising themselves to others. They seemed to pose behind their drinks as if the glass/bottle they had in hand was a proxy.

Hmm, I'm not so sure about that. During my "girl chasing" days, I can't ever remember looking at a girl across a bar and saying "Wow, look at the drink she's got...I need to get her number." A more likely thing is, if you buy someone a drink and they're super anal about the brand of vodka or something like that.... then you might be dealing with a "high maintenance" person, but even that never fazed me. A girl wants a drink, I'd buy her a drink. We can argue about finances later.

We have 8 teenage employees. They are all over the map when it comes to their social skills.

[Randy Stankey]

I think it has a lot to do with people having superficial attitudes. They only see their outward appearance to others as important but not the underlying meaning. People want cars, nice clothes and other worldly possessions but they don't understand or care about the meaning behind things.

When I was growing up in the bar I noticed a funny phenomenon in the way people behaved. I often saw people holding out their drinks as if they were showing them off to other people. (Prospective social contacts.) One guy might be drinking Budweiser. Another might have a Heineken. One woman might drink Long Island Iced Tea while another might drink "Sex on the Beach." People often seemed to hold their drinks out for others to see as if they were advertising themselves to others. They seemed to pose behind their drinks as if the glass/bottle they had in hand was a proxy.

Come on! Beer is beer! Liquor is liquor! Some brands are better than others, depending on personal taste but, beyond that, names are meaningless. How many times have you heard somebody say something like, "I got drunk on Wild Turkey last night!" How is getting drunk on "Turkey" any different than getting drunk on vodka? Some liquors have more sugar in them and drinking stuff with a lot of sugar can make your hangover worse, compared to others but, beyond that, booze is booze. They are virtually all the same.

Look at some of the ways alcohol is marketed. Goldschlager has flakes of gold in it. Tequila (mescal) has a worm in it. People act as if the gold or the worm has some kind of magical power or something. In reality, that gold you drank, last night, will just end up in the toilet the next morning. That worm, soaking in alcohol, can never become more potent than the liquor it's soaking in. Some people might think it's, somehow, manly to eat the worm while others watch but, in reality, it's little more than grade school theatrics. Didn't everybody know a kid in school who would eat anything for a quarter? Kids would catch a grasshopper or something and laugh while they watched him eat it! That's all that eating the worm from a bottle of tequila really is! Nothing more than a grade school gross-out!

People's behavior in bars is little more than a grown-up version of the school playground! Frank Zappa was, once, quoted, "Adult life is exactly like high school, only with money." (Paraphrased.)

People need to stop acting like life is all about having fancy cars or showing off to others by posing behind a bottle of beer or a glass of liquor. They need to think about what they really want out of life and stop depending on worldly possessions to define themselves.

Until that happens (likely never) people are going to live sad, superficial, meaningless lives. They will never have truly meaningful relationships with others and that will preclude the majority of them from having a meaningful sex life.

I think that movies reflect that. Movies, today, and many from the past, are little more than superficial reflections of what people think life should be. I agree that movies are fantasy and fantasies are often superficial. It's only natural but there's more to life than superficial appearances. And, so, I say the same thing about movies... There should be more than superficial appearances.

[Bobby Henderson]

The situation is complicated. Despite what seems like easy availability of sex people in the Gen-Z and Millennials group are having less sex than those in the Gen-X and Boomers generations. The divorce rate is falling, but that's only because the number of new marriages is falling too.

Perhaps a lot of younger adults don't really know how to have a relationship with another person. Kids growing up stuck indoors connected to digital screens and then living in isolation as adults doesn't work so well for developing good social skills. Relationship skills are a giant step above that. Compound that problem with the unrealistic images and messages our popular culture sells to the public about love. I think a lot of young adults are holding out for that "perfect" partner to come along that checks all the "important" boxes on the list. It's ridiculous some people are being judged by the content of their Instagram profile. Gotta have enough images showing off vacations and displays of wealth and success. It's a depressing enough situation to make people just give up and settle for being single.

It takes work to write a good movie but people don't know how or don't want to put the work into it.

The higher ups (producers, studio executives, etc) aren't going to let the creative people stray outside the boundaries of the Save the Cat! beat-sheet clip-art formula either.

[Randy Stankey]

Then both people can focus on the next stage of the relationship.

There's the problem! Most people (present company excluded) don't think about the "next" stage. Their one and only stage is sex.

More well-rounded people think in terms of whether they like the other person well enough to have a physical relationship where your average idiot just thinks about how to get the other person to have sex.

I think that's the reason why more and more people are declaring themselves as "asexual" or "non-sexual." They think of the sexual part of a relationship first and see that it's a dead end but don't understand how to have a good enough emotional relationship with another person that would make sex feel "worth it."

Anybody can go out and "get" sex, these days.

It takes work to have a relationship with others but people don't know how or don't want to put the work into it.

Change the phrase "have a relationship" to "write a good movie" and you'll have a good way to describe the state of movies, today:

It takes work to write a good movie but people don't know how or don't want to put the work into it.

[Bobby Henderson]

In my own experience there is hardly any chase anymore. I'd be on the couch kissing someone new and trying to see how far I can get with my hands. I'd get to first base and she would simply cut out the game playing and pull me to the bedroom. Hell, the couch has been bypassed a few times. The first time or two with a new partner can be awkward. I think a lot of people just want to get that out of the way. Then both people can focus on the next stage of the relationship.