I finally converted over to Win 10 Pro.... Still not impressed....

[Bruce Cloutier]

So recently Microsoft put out a security update (ending in 802 if I remember) that for some reason made Dymo printers print blank labels. This shutdown our receiving and production area. Apparently it fell on Dymo to fix this. Their site was overloaded and their initial recommendations did not resolve the issue. Finally they recommended that you uninstall the offending security update. That temporarily resolved the issue but Windows would eventually reapply the update. We tried to disable the Windows Update service hoping that there would be a more appropriate fix soon. The problem returned and even though Windows update had been disabled it was running. Turns out that there is a Windows Update Medic service that restarts Windows Update if you stop it. And... You cannot stop or edit the "medic" service. Access is denied!

Thankfully after a week of farting with this issue on multiple machines, Dymo came out with an update that restored printing even in the face of the Microsoft Update.

IMHO these are our computers and it we want to stop a service we should have every right! As it is we run WIndows based production machines (big mistake) disconnected from the network (Go watch Battlestar Galactica again). Whenever possible we are installing Linux machines (Ubuntu) and have recently converted ALL of our servers to full Linux boots without any software purchase.

Now I need to work on some graphics and CorelDraw will not install on Windows 7 or 8. Corel says to update the OS. If I update the OS on this machine whole bunches of other things will break not the least of which would be how I can work remotely on this multi-screen PC. All of this seems broken to me (again IMHO). Having been part the beginning of all of this in the late 1960s and on, I feel that all of what we started is now seriously circling the drain.

I could rant on... and not just about Microsoft. But, my recommendation is that if you can get the job done on Linux that is the way to go. Microsoft, the corporation, needs run cleanup on itself, defrag and then be rebooted.

[Leo Enticknap]

I've found that if a Windows app needs to use bespoke Windows hardware drivers, that's when WINE can't help you. The Barco and NEC Communicator apps both work reliably in WINE (as long as they're communicating through IP, not RS232), meaning that potentially, a repurposed old PC with a Debian/Linux-based OS would work as a cinema remote access PC (there is a native version of Teamviewer available). The big advantage to doing that would be that it could read DCP drives natively, if needs be, thereby enabling you to FTP them into a server if the server itself refuses to read them. I once tried Office 2007 within WINE, but when I tried to open a Powerpoint with an embedded video, it crashed. And the Adobe Creative Suite apps won't even install.

[Van Dalton]

There *is* WINE if you need it but it's kind of a kludge at best. It works alright for me, for the few things that I need it for (mainly audio processing and ISO9660 manipulation tools), but the software I run in it isn't sophisticated by today's standards, by any means.

I still keep a Pentium IV with 98 around mainly to run Simcopter because no matter how much I have cussed it out, WINE just ain't having it, but it's the only Winblows machine I have anymore. It also excels as a DVD video file ripper/player.

[Leo Enticknap]

My computers (including my field laptop) are dual boot / triple partition (one for each OS, and one for data), with Windows 10 and Ubuntu. Windows is a bit like cable TV cord cutting for someone who is addicted to just one show that they can only see with a cable subscription: there are some apps, the functionality of which can't be reproduced at all under a Linux-based OS, or not as well. I've found that the dual boot route allows me to have the best of both worlds, and to suffer the worst of neither.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

Stefan, You need to watch the Resource Monitor to see exactly what is going on in your computer, or you can download any one of a bunch of more comprehensive programs, but it can still tell you quickly what is going on. In the case of older laptops and desktops, often there just is not enough ram to adequately handle everything Win 10 is wanting to do. That's one reason that at the beginning of an install or update to 10, it looks at your system and if it is not at least the minimum requirement then it will not update from 7 or you won't be able to do a fresh install of it. 4GB was ok for Win 7, but it is not enough for Win 10 and a safe minimum would now be 8 gb... Lack of RAM installed under almost any OS causes the mechanical HDD to do a lot of the caching of data rather than the RAM itself. So when you switch to an SSD which is much faster than a mechanical drive, it simply takes up the slack the RAM would normally do and and it does the caching much faster than the cave man style drive....The monitors are both in the Windows Admin panel.

[Stefan Scholz]

I'm not a Windows fan by any means for personal use but as far as MS products go I quite like Windows 10. I'm pleasantly surprised how the old stuff I need like Load500 still run happily, and if you have the 32 bit version on hand so you can run 16 bit applications even the dreaded SDDS setup software runs just fine.

What was remarkable is I tried upgrading (well, wiping and reinstalling) our ancient Core 2 Duo EPOS laptops to Windows 10 and they slowed to a crawl until I replaced the spinning rust HDDs with SSDs. It's really surprising how much less efficient Windows 10 is than 7 with an HDD (even when you disable all the prefetching stuff).

The HDD vs SSD was something I really never understood. A fairly powerful desktop, 8 core from the older times suddenly used literally hours do do the frequent updates required by Win 10.As I was rarely in that location, it always when I wanted to work, it required the update routine. Stealing important office time. Changing nothing else, just cloning the HDD to a SSD, ant it took minutes. You can't tell me it's not intentionally done.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

I'm not a Windows fan by any means for personal use but as far as MS products go I quite like Windows 10. I'm pleasantly surprised how the old stuff I need like Load500 still run happily, and if you have the 32 bit version on hand so you can run 16 bit applications even the dreaded SDDS setup software runs just fine.

What was remarkable is I tried upgrading (well, wiping and reinstalling) our ancient Core 2 Duo EPOS laptops to Windows 10 and they slowed to a crawl until I replaced the spinning rust HDDs with SSDs. It's really surprising how much less efficient Windows 10 is than 7 with an HDD (even when you disable all the prefetching stuff).

Have always had SSD's in my laptops mainly for durability, but never trust them. I lost all my Quick Books billing info off one SSD. Luckily, I backed up that program very frequently.

Also, Windows 7 still does update. For giggles I just tried my old Workstation and it hit on two security updates.

[Kieran Hall]

I'm not a Windows fan by any means for personal use but as far as MS products go I quite like Windows 10. I'm pleasantly surprised how the old stuff I need like Load500 still run happily, and if you have the 32 bit version on hand so you can run 16 bit applications even the dreaded SDDS setup software runs just fine.

What was remarkable is I tried upgrading (well, wiping and reinstalling) our ancient Core 2 Duo EPOS laptops to Windows 10 and they slowed to a crawl until I replaced the spinning rust HDDs with SSDs. It's really surprising how much less efficient Windows 10 is than 7 with an HDD (even when you disable all the prefetching stuff).

[Frank Cox]

I'm in the (fortunate) position that I don't need to do stuff that requires Windows, so I just don't have it. (Actually, I have exactly one Windows laptop -- it's connected to my projector and I run Firefox on it to control the projector, and occasionally Teamviewer so the techs can do what they need to do there. But that's literally all it does.)

All of my other computers run Centos Linux (probably changing to Oracle Linux sometime later this year unless something more compelling comes along) and everything that my wife and I do on our computers is done with Centos.

Years back, when I decided that DOS wasn't going to cut it in the brave new world of the Internet, I used Windows 98 for about two months. Decided I didn't like it and installed Red Hat Linux and I've been using that ever since.

I know what programs are running on my computers, I know why each of them is running, and it doesn't magically change behind my back.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

I like it better than previous versions, but it's far from perfect. Let me assume Windows 10 today isn't the Windows 10 I started with few years ago. It just seems to be the same name for a totally different thing.
Why does it lure to do updates on a nearly daily basis, and then ruin something, that was perfectly working the day before.
I own a small Microsoft Surface pro 2, that's probably 6 or 7 years old. There's an issue lately with the wireless modems since an update not too long ago, they are no longer detected, once into hybernation.
Googling, yes, a known issue. Shut fully down and restart new. This could happen with every brand on the market, but something made for and distributed by Microsoft should never be allowed to have any issues. This must be tested beforehand.
Actually my most stable running machines are those on Linux (Mint). There hasn't been any need to fix things in years, just keep the web browser updated. Yes, they're bedside suf computers and an image calculating/ film rendering multicore unit. It just shows to me, if something works, do not change anything. You'll be rewarded with a flawless workflow.

Well, you can not run many of the really good photo programs under Linux, I have tried even with those sub programs that do make them run But results are n ot the same. Capture One will not even load and Photoshop turns out dismal looking images when viewed on other OS's. Linux works well for ripping CD's and stuff like that... for general file usage. But for graphics / photo use it leaves a lot to be desired. If those companies had Linux versions then I would absolutely be running on Linux. Lately, I have been using a program to convert my Two and Four megapixel really old (1990's) digital image files into larger files that allow printing up to 16X20 or larger in some instances, and you can't even tell they were such small files to begin with. And that is another program that will not even load under Linux. It's WindBlows or Mac for photo work and I will not own any Apple products. So the Wind Blows here. Also, if you are using 10 Pro you can go in and turn the updater off and or change it's permissions, but no can do with the Home version. .

[Stefan Scholz]

I like it better than previous versions, but it's far from perfect. Let me assume Windows 10 today isn't the Windows 10 I started with few years ago. It just seems to be the same name for a totally different thing.
Why does it lure to do updates on a nearly daily basis, and then ruin something, that was perfectly working the day before.
I own a small Microsoft Surface pro 2, that's probably 6 or 7 years old. There's an issue lately with the wireless modems since an update not too long ago, they are no longer detected, once into hybernation.
Googling, yes, a known issue. Shut fully down and restart new. This could happen with every brand on the market, but something made for and distributed by Microsoft should never be allowed to have any issues. This must be tested beforehand.
Actually my most stable running machines are those on Linux (Mint). There hasn't been any need to fix things in years, just keep the web browser updated. Yes, they're bedside suf computers and an image calculating/ film rendering multicore unit. It just shows to me, if something works, do not change anything. You'll be rewarded with a flawless workflow.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

Sort of my experience too Leo. I never ran out of space with Windows 7, but I did in a few cases where the systems tried to update to Win 10. On the TMS systems I never updated them automatically until GDC TMS 4.0 was released.

[Leo Enticknap]

My findings are that systems that built as Win10 have fewer problems than those updated to Win10.

It depends what you mean by updated. If you actually run the update installer from within W7, I agree: a big problem is that there is often almost no hard drive space left after the update process is complete (though you can purge the W7 "rollback" files afterwards), and it will often leave old W7 hardware drivers in place, which can lead to glitches.

If you do a clean install (i.e. rewrite the MBR, repartition the drive, and boot into the W10 install ISO), however, I've never had significant problems, except if there is a unusual hardware component involved for which there was never a reliable W10 driver created. I've done dozens of clean slate W10 installs on cookie cutter home and office PCs sold since around 2009-10, and in terms of the software, they are rock solid reliable. Adding a SSD for the system drive and some more RAM if the machine originally had 4GB or less pays huge dividends in system performance, though (especially as DDR2 is dirt cheap now).

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

My findings are that systems that built as Win10 have fewer problems than those updated to Win10. When we updated our office machines to Win10, there were issues that had to be sorted out. I had a file that became corrupted on my email program that would, as it was accessed, would crash the system. Fixed that, fixed the problem.

System that I've worked on that start out as Win10 seem to boot notably faster than those that were updated to Win10...possibly due to processor speed but the processors on the updated systems were i7s and reasonably fast too. Strangely, I run an emulated Win10 on my iMac and that was an updated system (I had Win7 emulated before). That system is pretty rock solid though I wouldn't call boot up brisk (I use Parallels for my virtual machine. Other than the boot up time (which normally isn't too much of an issue since 95% of time I just suspend the session rather than a full shutdown).

I'd say I prefer Win7's layout and not having to rely on Win10 to find where they "hid" things (like the startup folder, or even getting to the control panel). However, if things are important to you, you can pin them to the start menu and taskbar.

The realities are, you have to work with Win10 now for an ever increasing number of programs or even to connect to many IT infrastructures (Win7 no longer receives required security patches). I'm also running into some programs where Win7 is no longer supported and will crash if I use the current version of the program.

What I have done, and continue to do is to not update my laptops. Only the very first ones, that shipped with Windows 3/3.11...which updated to Win95 were updated. Since then I have a Win98SE laptop, a WinXP laptop and currently have a Win7 laptop. I've found success in keeping the old laptops on their original operating systems keeps them reasonably brisk and when working with older equipment, they communicate better. The WinXP laptop definitely does better with CP650s with its real serial port than the Win7 machine with a dongle and I have also found that the WinXP laptop will talk better, directly, with a CAT862's USB port (for updates and emergency recovery) than the Win7 laptop. The Win98 will do better for the few time I need to talk with quite vintage cinema stuff (SDDS, for example). You run into 16-bit, 32-bit and 64-bit issues depending on programs you need to run for the equipment you are dealing with.

That's pretty much what I found Steve and is why I installed the little app that would not allow Win 7 Pro to update on the TMS or booth computers. A few sites beat me to it, and it does not just roll back. It all has to be reloaded from a backup.

In my case this HP Workstation was designed with Win 10 in mind, although somewhat early on. OS is a RAID 1 and Data is a separate Raid 1 both on the same LSI card.

The idea of the Classic Shell is to unhide stuff and make it more Windows 7 like right down to the "Start Button", and to that end the person that did it succeeded, and yes 10 boots really fast here. In like 15 seconds.

I for sure have done the same with my laptops all along, different laptops and OS for different eras - types of gear. Although I like to say I am 97% retired, I still keep em at the ready, and I still get calls.

The real place that people are gonna get screwed is not being able to get a driver for an older piece of gear. That "almost" happened to me with the video card, an older Nvida. I am going to leave it as it... I could switch to Wind Blows 7 Pro at any time as I still have the drives and raid card that are all paired up, but am going to leave this and hold out for Wind Blows 13.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

You'll be sorry..... The vast majority of my systems (8) are still Windows 8.1. Rock solid, clean updates. I have 2 systems that run Windows 10: constant issues, updates that break things, Microsoft apparently believes they own my systems and can freely remove software they don't like. Make sure you turn off driver updates if you want to retain control over your systems hardware.

It's an HP Z-820 dul six core processors and a lot of RAM.... Other than crashing during Photoshop a couple times, It has been ok. I just finished ripping close to 700 CD's and no issues there. You can also disable Wind Blows Update in the "Services"/Admin panel, at least on 10 pro you can, but I did n ot see it in the other versions as staying disabled. . Plus there is a control panel to let you decide to install updates just as there was in Wind Blows 7 Pro. But the whole question is... WHy does Wind Blows 10 even exist.