New Guy Here

[Nathan Harp]

Hello all and thanks for the membership. Let me preface by saying the film industry is not in my wheel house, suffice to say I am here in hopes of preserving some history and or learning some more.

I arrived here after doing some research about some cool looking, heavy cast iron stands/pedestals that I bought at an auction. I bought these stands not knowing what they were and with the intent to use them as bench grinder stands before learning just how old they are. I was puzzled as to what they were originally used for for a long time! After posting pictures online of these stands/pedestals I was informed just what they were...I was informed they are hard to find, silent era 35mm pedestals and, "it wo uld be a sacrilege to use them as bench grinder stands!". Taking that statement into consideration I don't have the heart to just slap some bench grinders on them if they truly are rare and could be used for their original purpose all the while helping someone out with their resto project. If anyone has the time, please direct me to someone that might appreciate these stands for what they are or has a use for them. I strive to be a general steward of preservation and have a general appreciation for antiques so if I could connect these stands with an appreciative someone, I would be just as excited to help them out. Now, given the weight I am thinking shipping would be kind of expensive but I would make it happen if someone wanted these bad enough.

If this post goes against policy or is in the wrong area please forgive me. Also, I want to be clear, it isn't my intent to get rich by selling these pedestals, I am merely excited to see if I can make someone's day by having them available for their project. Thanks for any help!

Nathan Harp
Pedestals.jpg
Pedestals 2.jpg

[Sean McKinnon]

Welcome! Nice find. If you cleaned them up and painted them you would have a couple of great historical conversation pieces!

[Jim Cassedy]

What you have, I believe look like a pair of "Western Electric 3 point Pedestals". which would date them back to the early days of "talking pictures"- - roughly 1926/27, although Simplex made an almost identical model.

This assumption is reinforced by the fact that one of them still has the remnants of a very early (pre-1930) sound-head (and flywheel) attached. Unfortunately the old sound head is missing enough pieces & is rusted enough to prevent me from identifying or dating it further. I still encountered a few of these old pedestals, still in use, at several old theaters when I first started projecting in the early 1970's. And I still occasionally find one stashed in the basement of an old theater here & there that I'm called to do some work at.

I have no idea if they're worth anything. Most that were taken out of service were probably discarded as scrap metal. These two look quite weather-worn, but I'm no expert in metal work, and I've seen some amazing restoration of old machinery that I would have considered "junk". done by those who know what they're doing and have the time & resources to undertake such a project and make things "like new". So, they are worth something to someone- - and I sincerely applaud your efforts to "find them a good home" and I hope you're successful at doing that.

>> and if anybody is interested, I've got over one hundred, 2000ft foot 35mm film cans (empty) in an old theater that I've been asked to get rid of. 95% of them are steel cans and have been stored in a damp basement for over 20years, so most are quite rusty. I'm not even sure they have any scrap metal value in this shape. Like Nathan, I'm more interested in just 'getting rid of them' than in making any money. They're free for the asking if anyone in the SF Bay area wants to come get them. PM me for more info and a picture. (Of the CANS - - not me!)

Here's a picture, Of A WE-Base With Old Proj & Flywheel Attached, Similar To What You've Got
The proj in this picture is early vintage, but the attached soundhead in this photo is much newer.
WE-BASE.jpg
[photo credit: e-bay]

[Frank Cox]

Back in the days of film (does it make us a bunch of old coots when we write stuff like that?) I was told that there was a theatre in southern Saskatchewan that was still running silent movie projectors from 1916 that had been actually been converted for sound.

I never saw them, but I thought that was pretty cool.

[Nathan Harp]

Thank you all for the information. Are there perhaps any other outlets online where I might run across an individual that would have a desire for these?

Also, I noticed on my pedestals the base was cast as one solid piece. The pictured example above from Jim is a two-piece design that is bolted together. Does this make mine any more identifiable or dateable?

[Jeffrey Pratt]

Anybody have available the flywheel for a WesternElectric 206A head, or know where one may be available? I believe that's what is pictured attached on the backside of the soundhead in the first picture above or it's similar. I tried contacting the guy who started this post but it's been so long who knows if he still has it available. Anyway tips on how to get a hold of one would be much appreciated. Thanks.

[Ryan Gallagher]

Anybody have available the flywheel for a WesternElectric 206A head, or know where one may be available? I believe that's what is pictured attached on the backside of the soundhead in the first picture above or it's similar. I tried contacting the guy who started this post but it's been so long who knows if he still has it available. Anyway tips on how to get a hold of one would be much appreciated. Thanks.

You looking for a historic part or just trying to make it work? If the latter I expect there is not much to the flywheel other than a well balanced rotating mass, could probably have one turned on a lathe.

[Jeffrey Pratt]

Looking for it as part of a semi-historic restoration/rebuild. Want to have it working as well as within my ability but not expecting to do anything 100% in terms of function or historically correct. If I'm unable to locate one, I might try and go towards machining or modifying something, but I don't have any of exact specifications in terms of size and weight. As of right now I'm hoping it would be cheaper and easier to find one than make one. If anyone has available or knows the specs on one of those things that info would be great. Thanks

[Tony Bandiera Jr]

Back in the days of film (does it make us a bunch of old coots when we write stuff like that?) I was told that there was a theatre in southern Saskatchewan that was still running silent movie projectors from 1916 that had been actually been converted for sound.

I never saw them, but I thought that was pretty cool.

Well if the old coot fits........

[Tj Hopland]

Got a picture of a 206? WE had quite a few models and even variations within the models. The model in the 3rd post is the one that doesn't have a sprocket in it and the flywheel doesn't look correct unless its just a variation. Most of those I saw were more of a dished shaped thing with some slots in it.

The soundhead in the original post looks like its probably an Ultraphone Jewell. The sound gate doesn't quite look right but there could have been different variations or that memory could have been displaced by ICP boards. Could also be a Webber which usually used the name Syncrofilm. I remember the Webber's having more of a drum shaped gate area. Another thing that points to Ultraphone is Jewell manufacturing was Minneapolis and Chicago so a really good chance of finding one in Iowa. Jewell like most others in the era ran into legal / patent issues with Western Electric so didn't last that long or get that big of a foothold in the industry.

There was still a fair amount of that dawn of sound on film gear running into the 1980's. One fairly common practice was to put new equipment in the indoor theater and move the old stuff to the drive in you just built. You had things like 3d and Cinemascope that could maybe benefit your indoor which was also a year round operation so owners were more likely to spend the money there than at the drive in which was seasonal in many areas. Many of the dealers across the country made parts and kits to keep them going, things like maybe a different pulley / flywheel to allow using a different motor and or belts. They would do things like modify the amps to use more 'modern' more readily available at the time tubes and then in later years install solar cells and solid state PA amplifiers. 80's was also when many of the smaller towns (and drive ins) closed and when the first gen xenon and automation stuff started hitting the used market so those two factors got rid of most of that real early stuff. I did know of a few places that did manage to keep that stuff going with carbons and tubes into the late 90's. I never saw those running but based on the condition of the equipment (now in the lobby) it had to have been a pretty terrible experience for the customers.

[Jeffrey Pratt]

TJ
Thanks for the info, some the of the details on this stuff is pretty hard to dig into and discover for someone new to this equipment like me. Here are some pictures of what I'm working with, and stuff I've found...First a good reference photo from Projecting Sound Picture 1931 of a 206A, a couple of photos I've found off the internet of what I believe might be 206A systems installed, and lastly some pictures of what I 've got and where I think the big flywheel is missing.