electric rental cars

[Ryan Gallagher]

Honestly I think most rental outfits probably rushed to offer EVs before they had infrastructure added to support them at the depots. That infrastructure would probably mean a bank of chargers that serve as drop off parking spots, and then maybe 1 more staff person to shuffle them back to their storage spaces.

In a perfect world they would offer discounts for returning it charged above a certain threshold, rather than insisting (with hefty fees) that you have to fully charge it before it arrives in their hands.

A similar amount of shuffling is required for gas vehicles returning near empty, but over the decades, I'm sure the larger lots had tanks and pumps installed to streamline that task. This is no different, they just just don't want to spend the money, especially if EVs remain relatively unpopular rentals.

Weirdly, in the case of a large lot. Chargers actually scale better than gas does. 1 staffer could probably keep a bank of 50 or more chargers busy. No matter how many pumps you have, you are limited to how many vehicles 1 staffer can fill in a linear fashion. Could maybe shuffle a few more with two staff, but one basically becomes the pump operator. There is probably a tipping point where charging becomes faster than filling for the same amount of labor at the fleet level, provided the electrical capacity to handle enough concurrent charging.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

Ryan, For sure... Except possibly for Tesla. They had some support along the I-80 corridor in Nevada for at least ten years. Probably in other Nevada and West coast locations as well. The first Giggle Factory is very close to Fernly, NV

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

I agree, and that's why I won't rent or own an Electric Car in this day and age.

[Lyle Romer]

Actually Tesla charge stations do have a fast charge. I believe it charges to 75% in an hour. To have fast charge at home, you would need three phase, which is pretty non-existent in typical neighborhoods.

When on a trip with a rental car I don't want to have to spend an hour charging every so often and lose that time. At home my vehicles are normally sitting in the garage for at least 10 hours from the time I come home one day to when I am leaving the next. As long as the 220 V single phase charging can charge in that period of time then I don't have to waste any of my life sitting around while it charges.

I don't know if they will ever be able to fast charge much faster than current speeds unless there is a radically new battery technology. The thermal management for lithium ion is already an engineering ordeal to balance charging time with cell longevity.

[Lyle Romer]

Compared to filling gas, an hour for 75% is still a relative “slow” charge. An hour is not bad if you need to stop for other reasons, food, bathroom, stretch legs etc.

But quite a burden if trying to do it on the way to an airport, even worse if the rental outfit only accepts “full charge returns”, that last 25% can take longer.

it is ridiculous if renters with EV fleets don’t charge at the depot upon return, tack on a “reasonable” fee if needed.

Their fees are probably not reasonable and contributing to this tendency to avoid them.

"Relatively" slow compared to gas is an understatement. I can fill my truck with 36 gallon tank from almost empty to full in 5 minutes and I'll have almost 600 miles of range when I'm done. You also make a great point about the last 25% taking a long time. The charge rate gets throttled way down as it gets closer to 100%.

Also, with a gas rental car, it will show a "full" tank on the gauge even after driving over 10 miles (sometimes 25+) so you can fill the night before an early flight if your hotel is relatively close to the airport and not worry about getting a crazy charge for not returning full. An EV will not show "full" pretty quickly and is much more granular.

[Ryan Gallagher]

Also, with a gas rental car, it will show a "full" tank on the gauge even after driving over 10 miles (sometimes 25+) so you can fill the night before an early flight if your hotel is relatively close to the airport and not worry about getting a crazy charge for not returning full. An EV will not show "full" pretty quickly and is much more granular.

I wonder how lots account for this... are they asking for 95% charge or better? Considering teslas and othe rapid-charge solutions, I would think 70% would be more reasonable. Don't make people endure the slow charge phase before returning a rental. But if they are greedy, they'll just use anything below 99% to trigger their "fee". Kneecapping their fleet as far as desirability.

[Ryan Gallagher]

Not to mention such fees, if not advertised clearly, perhaps capitalizing on newbie's limited understanding of charging times and infrastructure and battery status, has the potential to easily veer into "predatory" business practices, abuse the customer for a quick buck in the near-term. Entice them with discounted rental rates, but make it all up on the back end with hidden fees.

[Lyle Romer]

I wonder how lots account for this... are they asking for 95% charge or better? Considering teslas and othe rapid-charge solutions, I would think 70% would be more reasonable. Don't make people endure the slow charge phase before returning a rental. But if they are greedy, they'll just use anything below 99% to trigger their "fee". Kneecapping their fleet as far as desirability.

It's much better for the batteries to only charge to 70% anyway. One of the battery chemistries (Lithium Iron Cobalt IIRC) requires charging to 100% sometimes to calibrate the remaining capacity. That technology has a very low voltage drop as it discharges so the vehicle can't monitor state of charge just by voltage measurements. It basically has to keep a running total of charge in/charge out.

[Scott Jentsch]

Compared to filling gas, an hour for 75% is still a relative “slow” charge. An hour is not bad if you need to stop for other reasons, food, bathroom, stretch legs etc.

Compared to filling gas, an hour for 75% is still a relative “slow” charge. An hour is not bad if you need to stop for other reasons, food, bathroom, stretch legs etc.

But quite a burden if trying to do it on the way to an airport, even worse if the rental outfit only accepts “full charge returns”, that last 25% can take longer.

Using a Tesla Model Y as an example (~300 miles of range), it appears from various sources that it can go from 10-80% in 25-30 minutes at a Tesla Supercharger. A Mustang Mach E standard range (~247 total miles) goes from 10-80% in ~32 minutes, based on what I could find.

That's much different than the hour Mark was quoting, but still longer than filling up with gasoline. You are correct that topping off a battery takes longer, as charging is not a linear operation. Some cars charge faster, some slower. Some charging stations are faster than others. Advances are being done to decrease the charging time with both battery and charging tech advances and manufacturers are finding out that they can be less conservative than they were initially and charge faster without harming the batteries in the long term. (EV batteries have 8 year warranties, so mfrs want to make sure that they meet or exceed those warranties. Those things mean that charging will improve over time because of multiple factors.)

Hertz states on its website that 3 options exist:

1. EV Purchase Option (EVPO): 
Purchase this option to pay for the amount of charge in the EV battery at time of pickup, at a rate similar to local charging stations plus a small fee. Then you can return the EV at any battery level. No refunds for the charge left in the battery at time of return.
2. EV Service Charge (EVSC): If you do not select EVPO and do not recharge the vehicle yourself, Hertz will charge you for the difference in battery level at pickup and return, at the same energy rate as EVPO but with a higher fee.
3. You recharge: Pay no additional cost if you return the EV at the same battery level it had at pickup — but you never have to bring it back over 75%.

This strikes me as similar to what is done with gas vehicles. You can prepay for gas, you can bring it back empty and pay a huge surcharge for them to refill it, or you can fill it yourself.

The above page has a sample chart that uses a Ford Mustang Mach E with a 70 kWh battery rented in California with 80% charge level at time of pickup. Returning the car with 15% charge would result in Option 1 having an estimated cost of $30, and Option 2 is estimated at $65.

The OP asked about a 100 mile trip in a rental car. It all depends on the type of driving he's doing (highway range is less than city), but let's take the 247 mile range of a standard range Mach E. 100 miles would be about 41% of the battery charge used. That's probably going to take about 15-20 minutes or less. It's not 5 minutes like a gas vehicle with no lines for the pump, but it's not an hour either.

If you find a charger near a restaurant, it'll be done by the time you eat that burger and fries. Better yet, if you stay at a hotel with a level 2 charger, plugging it in overnight means that you won't even have to stop to charge. (I've never been to a hotel where they offer to take your car and fill it up with gas while you sleep.)

Worst case scenario, you return the car with less than 75% charge and they ding you for the surcharged option which is going to run about $30-40. It's been a while, but I seem to recall rental companies charging about double the price of gas if you bring a car back less than full. At $6 per gallon, that's about 5-7 gallons of gas to equal that $30-40 charge, which is about 100 miles worth of gas for many vehicles.

Are EV rentals a perfect choice for everyone in every situation? No, but it's not a nightmare scenario either. In the case of renting a Tesla, however, the vehicles are different enough from a regular vehicle that it could be a little stressful for someone that isn't accustomed to its quirks and features. Cars like the Mustang Mach E are so familiar that my elderly parents could get in one and not have much trouble with it.

[Ryan Gallagher]

Hertz states on its website that 3 options exist:

1. EV Purchase Option (EVPO): 
Purchase this option to pay for the amount of charge in the EV battery at time of pickup, at a rate similar to local charging stations plus a small fee. Then you can return the EV at any battery level. No refunds for the charge left in the battery at time of return.
2. EV Service Charge (EVSC): If you do not select EVPO and do not recharge the vehicle yourself, Hertz will charge you for the difference in battery level at pickup and return, at the same energy rate as EVPO but with a higher fee.
3. You recharge: Pay no additional cost if you return the EV at the same battery level it had at pickup — but you never have to bring it back over 75%.

This strikes me as similar to what is done with gas vehicles. You can prepay for gas, you can bring it back empty and pay a huge surcharge for them to refill it, or you can fill it yourself.

Good to know they treat 75% as full in the self-charge options. It's basically the same racket as gas it seems, but with a more nuanced/scheduling conundrum for EV customers. I expect they still make most of their fee money on people who don't pay attention or don't understand the options and simply select the cheapest cost at the time of rental, not considering the service fee structures on the back end if they are not careful.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

Three reasons not to rent an electric car!!!

[Scott Jentsch]

The need to "refuel" before returning a rental car isn't unique, so unless you're renting in an area that has unacceptable charging options, it should not be much more difficult than gassing up for the reasons I outlined.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

Except people that discover this at the last min, may miss a flight, or be stuck paying the rental company fee. What if you get to a charge station and one isn't available. That has happened lots of times in the Midwest in Winter...