Spanish dialogue in Spielberg's "West Side Story" remake won't be subtitled

[Randy Stankey]

If the dialog isn't important to the plot and is nothing more than mundane banter between characters it does not need to be subtitled.

It doesn't have to be limited to mundane banter.

In my example, above, the Jefe ordered the Esbirro to "Búscalo James Bond."

That's not mundane. It's an important part of the plot because it sets up the next big chase scene. Without knowing that the boss told the henchman to find Bond, the big chase scene doesn't make sense. That scene might last for less than thirty seconds but it is integral to setting up the action that follows.

Maybe the language (Spanish) could be watered down to use simple grammar (telegraphic speech) or more common words that your average White American are likely to understand. With the right facial expressions and gestures the meaning of the dialogue will be more apparent even if the words are not fully understood.

de Niro.jpg
"¡Estoy viendo!"

Done properly, entire sections of a movie could be in a foreign language but a non-Spanish audience could still understand.

It would take a good director, a good writer and the actors would all have to be on-board but it can be done.

If any director/producer, alive today, could pull this off, Spielberg should be able to do it.

Let's hope he's up to the task!

[Brad Miller]

Some of the bitching I'm seeing elsewhere about the Spanish dialog with no subtitles sounds like people jumping on the opportunity to get triggered over something they find "woke."

If Spielberg took the time and effort to issue this statement, then it's got to be more than just casual background banter.

[Bobby Henderson]

It's okay with me as long as the dialogue in Spanish isn't so long and complicated that a person who doesn't understand Spanish will lose the plot.

Agreed.

If the dialog isn't important to the plot and is nothing more than mundane banter between characters it does not need to be subtitled.

There is lots of English-spoken dialog in movies that is nothing more than passing "atmosphere" that's barely intelligible. Many movies, including some from Spielberg, have had characters speaking foreign dialog without any subtitles. If the action in the scene does enough to show and not tell the audience will get the drift of what the characters mean regardless of the language being spoken.

Dialog is one of the least-remembered details in a movie. So if the plot is heavily dependent on passing remarks of some character the movie won't be as effective. Scenes very heavy in dialog slow a movie way the hell down (clue to Quentin Tarantino).

Some of the bitching I'm seeing elsewhere about the Spanish dialog with no subtitles sounds like people jumping on the opportunity to get triggered over something they find "woke." They just need to take the stick out of their ass and get over it. They're sounding like the assholes who do things like create confrontations in grocery stores when encountering a couple of people speaking Spanish or some other foreign language. Even if the people were speaking English their conversation is none of that asshole's business. During the 5 years I lived in NYC it was an almost daily thing to hear other people in public places speaking languages other than English. Not a big deal at all.

I have mixed feelings about this "re-imagining" of West Side Story. It's always going to have the stain of being a re-make and not something original. That's one huge negative point. The original won a bunch of Oscars and featured the work from a lot of people operating at the top of their game. Even the end title sequence from Saul Bass was highly innovative. The marketing appeal of West Side Story is going to skew to older generations who are already very familiar with the original movie. The bar of expectations is set at a near-impossible high level for this re-make to match. So it should make anyone wonder why Spielberg would even bother with this project?

However the original movie is not perfect. Quite a bit of it feels like cameras were set in front of a stage play (a common problem for many old movies). Movie production techniques and technology has vastly improved over the past 60 years. Hollywood depictions of Latino culture 60 years ago weren't particularly authentic. Even though Rita Moreno was a stand-out in the movie there was quite a bit of Hollywood White-Washing going on with the casting choices, starting with Natalie Wood (a white lady whose singing had to be dubbed by Marni Nixon). Spielberg is casting real Latino actors in all the Latino roles in this update. There is nothing wrong with that. The character Anybodys has a real trans person playing that role.

I'm annoyed Spielberg shot his re-make in 'scope 35mm when he probably could have shot it in 5/65mm. Judging by the trailer and other clips I've seen it looks like 'scope 35mm was chosen so he could go J.J. Abrams crazy with the lens flares and other anamorphic style effects. That style stuff wouldn't be so visible on 5/65mm, even if shot with UP70 lenses. Not that any of this matters. It's very clear from some of the movie footage that quite a bit of digital backlot work was used in the movie to help re-create New York City from the 1950's. That means a digital intermediate is at work. So even if the movie was shot on 5/65mm film it would still be pipe-lined thru a 2K or 4K DI stage, scrubbing all the film-based DNA from the imagery. The finished product is electronic.

[Brad Miller]

I was constantly distracted from enjoying the movie Tenet because I kept not being able to understand the dialogue. I know Mr. Nolan said something to the effect of that if you can't understand a particular line of dialogue then it wasn't important to be heard, but that's ridiculous. There were many shots where the camera cut to an actor to deliver a line and it was unintelligible, and I find it hard to accept that excuse for intentional lines of dialogue like that. It had me frustrated so much I could not get into the film to be able to enjoy it and with the audience having that kind of distraction going on, it'd harder to pay attention to the plot (which demanded the audience's full attention). Meanwhile there were theaters that started advertising open caption shows of Tenet because the customers were furious that they couldn't understand the dialogue. There were also lots of theaters that went in and cranked up the center channel gain or turn down the other channels on any screen Tenet was playing in order to try and keep the non-stop complaints down to something manageable. And no, not all of those would have been done by a technician. When managers are put into a nasty position of getting chewed out constantly, if they don't feel their tech will do something to fix the problem, they WILL just do it their damn selves and not say anything. So I ask, how many of those adjustments actually got restored to their proper calibrated settings? Maybe some did, but I'm quite sure there are a lot of screens that are now very much unbalanced because of Tenet's sound mix.

The problem is that in the case of Tenet, Mr. Nolan knew EXACTLY what the lines of dialogue were, so when it became buried in the mix, he could still literally hear the dialogue in his head because he knew what was being said even though it couldn't be clearly heard in the mixing room. That's where it would be a good idea to bring in a few outside people and sit them down and every time they can't understand something that was just said they press a button labeled "what???". Then the sound mixers go back to all of those points and make some minor adjustments so the next outside people that have never seen the movie before can make it through the entire movie without hitting the "what???" button at all.

With Mr. Spielberg, I agree that statement above was written by a PR person, but regardless the whole thing has gotten out of hand in trying to be politically correct. It's the same scenario though, and Spielberg is letting some over-sensitive snowflake convince him to make the same mistake as Tenet did. Spielberg knows what the Spanish lines are in English, so even though he likely doesn't speak Spanish, he can watch the movie just fine without the captions. I think it is disrespectful to the paying audience though. This market as noted above is 87.2% English-speaking, so that means the release in the US market should NOT have subtitles when English lines are spoken and the movie MUST have subtitles when non-English is spoken. For the Spanish community, pretty much every major movie has subtitled and dubbed versions available on opening day. What's the problem here?

Knowing the situation with the subtitles, I will officially not waste my time with this movie. I cannot stand subtitles on English content. When a subtitle pops up my eyes are immediately pulled away from the image I was looking at and I find myself reading the captions faster than the dialogue is delivered...and THAT DESTROYS THE MOVIE! Also it is hard to keep up with the visuals of the movie because I am too busy READING. I have no problem with foreign movies being subtitled, as I prefer that to dubbed, but if I speak the language of the characters, there is no excuse to have subtitles on the screen distracting me. Likewise if there are going to be scenes that I will not be able to understand, why would I even consider wasting my time on this film only to be frustrated like I was with Tenet? This could be the best movie of the year for all I know, but I can tell you now that because I wouldn't be able to enjoy it, even if I watched it the film would get a "thumbs down" review from me. The simple answer here is that as word spreads, this insane decision is going to hurt ticket sales because people will avoid the movie.

Mr. Spielberg, with all due respect for your brilliant filmmaking over the years, do you remember the last time you took a dive into the deep end of the over-sensitive politically correct pool? I'll give you a hint: walkie talkies. Do you regret that ridiculous decision? You are making the same mistake here.

[Frank Angel]

While I am not a fan of re-envisioning a classic movie, but of course it's been done all the time and a filmmaker should be able to make whatever movie he wants, the public will ultimately give it the thumbs up or thumbs down. One would hope that a filmmaker has a vision different than the original and can bring something interesting and unique to the remake. That said, when picking a title to re-envison, it is pretty risky to pick one that is so beloved by so many millions. As for Mr. JAWS' take on no subtitles, as has been pointed out, it's been done many times before and it has worked well IF the context allows the audience to understand what is going on. And let's face it, most people of a certain age don't need much of anything to be explained in WEST SIDE STORY. In fact, those smatterings of non-subtitled dialogue usually adds a sense of authenticity to a scene, which I have liked in other films where that has been used. But no matter how good this version turns out to be, there will always be the original to wow audiences and if by some stroke of luck and alignment of stars, they are lucky enough to see Mr. Kornfeld's impeccable 70mm presentation, the let's-watch-it-on-the-smartphone crowd will l be given a taste of just how how spectacular movies COULD look.

I had gotten a print of EUROPA, EUROPA -- it was a highly hyped engagement with the the director Agneszka Holland in attendance for her trilogy, WASHINGTON SQUARE, TOTAL ECLIPSE.and EUROPA, EUROPA. Turns out, the EE print came in literally 15min before showtime so no time to QC or prep other than to do a bench rewind. It had come directly from the lab, a mint print -- no splices at all -- even heads and tails were intact. Everything looked great. Thing is, as the first reel ran, the Nazi characters' dialogue had no subtitles. I assume since they were the Nazis and the setting was in Poland, that was what the director wanted. I waited for the main characters to start speaking and there the problem was, NONE of the characters' dialogue was subtitled -- Polish, Russian or German. About halfway into R1, I realized I'd been had; this brand new print hadn't been subtitled yet. I stopped the show and had to make the announcement about the error. I then mentioned that on the up side, it was a pristine print directly from the lab and I would continue to run it for those who wanted to stay. I should add that this was a fairly well-know title (won the Oscar for best Foreign Film) and I would guess most of our art-house audience had probably seen it already. I was gratified to see that only a handful of patrons left. A good 250 or so stayed and watched it, maybe not understanding the spoken language, but understanding the language of cinema. And evidently enjoying it immensely, Holland signed the 1-sheet.

[Steve Guttag]

To throw some gasoline on the fire, because that's me...So, when the movie plays in a country that speaks neither English or Spanish, wille ONLY the English parts be subtitled (or dubbed) with the Spanish parts being "blessed" to only be allowed to be presented in natural form?

In a Spanish speaking country, will the English parts be subtitled? To not acknowledge the predominance of English as a language in the USA is absurd. I do agree with others, in that context is everything. I would presume most have been in a situation where one does not know the language of someone else yet, depending on the context of the conversation, one can pick up enough to get the gist of what was going on.

[Randy Stankey]

It's okay with me as long as the dialogue in Spanish isn't so long and complicated that a person who doesn't understand Spanish will lose the plot.

You don't have to dumb the dialogue down. You don't have to limit Spanish dialogue to just, "¡Buenos Dias!" and "Gracias!" You can make dialog last for several exchanges, provided that the action and setting give enough cues to a non-speaker to know what's going on.

Imagine a scene with a criminal boss, talking to a henchman...

Boss [to henchman]: "Where's James Bond?"
Henchman: "He got away."
Boss: "Find him! Bring him to me!"
Henchman: "Yes, sir!"
Boss: "If he gets away again, YOU will take his place in front of the firing squad!"
Henchman: "I won't fail you, sir!"

Jefe [al secuaz]: "¿Dónde está James Bond?"
Esbirro: "Se escapó."
Jefe: "¡Búscalo! ¡Tráelo!"
Esbirro: "¡Sí, señor!"
Jefe: "Si se escapa de nuevo, ¡TÚ ocuparás su lugar frente al pelotón de fusilamiento!"
Esbirro: "¡No le fallaré, señor!"

With the right voice inflection and a few gestures thrown it for good measure, there's no reason that any intelligent adult shouldn't be able to follow.

Hopefully, a director like Speilberg would know how to shoot a movie well enough to do that. If he's good enough...and I sure HOPE so! This is SPIELBERG we're talking about!... He should be able to shoot a full length scene in just Spanish and still not lose the audience.

[David Kornfeld]

A few small points.

First off, someone really has to ask: Why was this remade? It's not as if the original sucked, you know. And Ive run the original, in 70mm mag, in 35mm mag, Tech prints, reprints, singalong prints, the works. Holds up pretty darn well. And shot in 70, just to put some icing on that cake. So, again, whats the point?

Next, it's well-known that Mr Spielberg has always wanted to make a musical. (Hook, it was rumoured, had musical numbers in it that were cut out before release [one song remains]). That being the case, why remake this musical? Again, it isnt as if the original production blew chunks, or had a low budget, or wasnt successful, or didnt win any Oscars (just....uhmmmm.....eleven). Of all the musicals in the world, why choose this? What was he hoping to achieve?

Last. People: dont be fooled by what someone like Mr Spielberg says. That statement was probably written for him by some PR flak, & I dont buy it for one second. Want to know what I think the real reason is for there being Spanish language sections with no subs? Because Mr Spielberg thinks hes awesome enough to ape movies like The Treasure of the Sierra Madre or The Wild Bunch, both of which had untranslated Spanish-speaking scenes, & he thinks he can do it as well as Huston or Peckinpah, both of whom spoke Spanish.

Personally, I dont think he'll make it, but thats just me.

[Mike Blakesley]

Whether subtitles are disrespectful or not, Mr. Spielberg, is beside the point. The people you are disrespecting are the audience, the PEOPLE WHO PAY YOUR DAMN SALARY. A good two-thirds of whom will not understand Spanish. Don't the people who pay the bills deserve respect, no matter what language they speak?

If he's really that worried about this, he should have the entire movie be captioned and be done with it, and make sure it's that way on video too.

I guess I'll wait to read up on how much of this movie is in Spanish before we decide whether to play it or not. If it's going to wreck the experience for our crowd, then we won't play it, that's all.

[Sam Chavez]

I don't think we should make more of this than is there. There were no subtitles in the original film or play for that matter. The issue in Interstellar was not being able to make out the dialogue, whatever language it happened to be. Movies have been dubbed or subtitled as deemed appropriate for the region for over a 100 years now without a lot of controversy. And it's not a censorship issue as on airplanes. Let it go already!

[Marcel Birgelen]

Well, this is some phony, woke bullshit...

Over here in Flanders, any French dialog will be subtitled in Flemish/Dutch whereas in Wallonia, anything Flemish/Dutch will be subtitled in French and nobody will be offended, even if many people will be perfectly capable of following the dialog in both languages...

I'd say NOT subtitling large parts of your movie, confusing the heck out of large parts of your audience is disrespectful. I wonder how this movie will play in oversees markets. Will the Spanish parts receive no subtitles or dubbing in those releases either?

[Leo Enticknap]

From the New York Post:

Steven Spielberg on ‘West Side Story’ subtitles: It’s ‘disrespectful’

No need to get your reading glasses to watch Steven Spielberg’s upcoming adaption of “West Side Story.”

The musical won’t be using any English subtitles during scenes where Spanish dialogue is spoken.

The Oscar-winning director recently addressed the lack of subtitles and defended his decision for not using them.

“I don’t know if anybody really questioned it. I don’t remember anybody saying ‘You’ve got to subtitle it,'” the 74-year-old told Digital Spy. “I felt that subtitling the Spanish was disrespectful to the second language of this country.”

The “Jaws” filmmaker continued, “It would make English the dominant language, because then there would be two being spoken: the English by the characters speaking and the English that would [be written] underneath the spoken Spanish words.”

It’s worth noting that the United States has no official language, but English and Spanish are tallied as the first- and second-most-widely spoken languages by Americans, with more than 41 million people in this country who regularly use the latter.

“It was out of complete respect, to give dignity where dignity is earned and deserved to be given,” Spielberg added.

Spielberg’s highly anticipated adaption of the 1957 Stephen Sondheim Broadway production hits theaters Friday. The film stars Ansel Elgort as Tony and newcomer Rachel Zegler as Maria, star-crossed lovers in 1950s New York living under the shadows of racism and rivaling teenage gangs the Jets and the Sharks.

Ariana DeBose, David Alvarez, Mike Faist and Corey Stoll also star. Rita Moreno, the scene-stealer of the 1961 “West Side Story” film, also makes an appearance.

Sondheim, who died on Nov. 26 at the age of 91, gave his blessing for this remake before his passing.

“[In] one of the last messages I received from him, he just gushed over the film,” Justin Peck, the movie’s choreographer, recently told Page Six.

Peck continued, “Stephen said to me, ‘On behalf of the original authors, we’re so proud of what this film is, and I’m so happy that it’s been made.’ That was all the feedback I ever needed … I know that he was happy with the film.”

Associate choreographer Patricia Delgado added that the Broadway visionary’s “powerful” presence could be felt as the cast and crew went to the premiere.

“He was really the only one alive [from the original production] to give us his blessing,” she said. “He’s contributed so much to all of us already … He lives in us.”

So does that make it disrespectful to native English speakers to offer Spanish CCAP versions of English-language movies, then? Is it also disrespectful to the native speakers of many other languages, arthouse movies in which are played with on-screen subtitles?

The extent of how dumb this is really depends on how much unsubtitled Spanish there is in this pic, and if any of it is crucial to understanding the plot. If not much and none, then this will just be a gimmick done for reasons not permitted for discussion on this forum. But if it's a significant amount and/or is necessary for understanding the plot, I predict that we'll be into another Interstellar situation, with customers coming out of houses to complain, and theaters being forced to put up placards explaining that this is an artistic decision of the filmmaker, and not a technical breakdown of equipment in the theater.

41 million residents of the USA regularly use Spanish. Per Wikipedia, that's12.8% of the population. Or, put another way, 87.2% of the population that will potentially be alienated and, when word gets around, will stay away from this movie.