Problems with DTS 70mm Playback

[Marco Giustini]

Steve,

Jerry already confirmed the XD20 is on the latest version - but great catch! There is nothing else on FT in term of software, besides a very old 2.00.43 I think. I kind of assumed that the latest version was the one to use.

Michael,
interesting. If I check the logs again, I see that there isn't a "TC: DROP" message at the end of Reel 2. The file ends. THEN, there is an edit from 2 to 3 AFTER the end of file.
So you might be right, the reel reaches the end, the sound file ends. The TimeCode continues. Only when the TimeCode physically disappears from the reader, then does the player consider P2 and there is an edit.

On other prints, the Timecode is stopped earlier and the XD20 happily moves to the following reel.

[6] [Sep 11 17:50:01] SndTrk: Edit from 19:12:26(0320) to 00:03:12(0740) [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:00:13] TC: Edit from R02 10:12:17 to R02 10:12:19 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:07:45] SndTrk: EOF (17:41:06(0988)) [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:07:46] DTS Audio OFF [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:07:46] Format OUT: P4-SR-D [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:07:53] TC: Edit from R02 17:50:04 to R02 17:50:06 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:07:53] TC: Edit from R02 17:50:08 to R03 00:20:03 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:07:54] SndTrk: Check - SN:14197 R:3 L:LAST[1] [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:07:54] SndTrk: Open 413168976486a6680fb5f95a93aa08a2.snd "Joker " C:5 SN:14197/0 R:3 L: ENG [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:07:54] Nar: Check S:14197 R:3 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:07:54] SndTrk: Edit from 17:41:06(0592) to 00:19:12(1180) [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:07:55] DTS Audio ON [29]​

Randy,
Yes, I have recommended Jerry to do similar tests earlier in the thread to get more data points.

I am going to drop this here but I have this weird feeling that both heads are plugged to the same input! I don't even know if that would work but...

[Randy Stankey]

I never used DTS on anything but platters and I never would have thought of this until Michael mentioned it. I think he might be right.

One way to test this hypothesis would be to slide a business card (or similar) into the reader just after the changeover. If you can get a helper, have them slide the card into place when you make a call-out. Otherwise, just have the card handy and do it yourself.

If the sound switches over more like it should then you can look at the settings (jumpers? DIP switches?) on your player and make changes if you think appropriate.

If the sound doesn't switch any better then you have eliminated one possibility without having to make changes to your system.

As Thomas Edison is quoted as saying, "I haven't failed one hundred times. I have succeeded in finding one hundred ways that don't work."

[Michael Zarits]

In any case I doubt it would take 20 seconds to eventually go to the next reel.

My thought was that in platter mode it only switches to P2 when there's no timecode present at P1 and that the tail leader of P1 has timecode for another ~20 sec, thus P2 kicks in only when P1's timecoded tail leader runs out 20 sec after the LFOA.

[Steve Guttag]

There is always the possibility that there was a bug in a firmware version. I see that Film-Tech has 2.2.06 for the XD10 and XD20. I'm curious if that is what is in use on this unit and if not, try updating to that. I seem to recall that Brad has worked out what the ideal firmware are the most solid.

I just downloaded it and check out the big improvement for the XD20:

image.png

So, if you are not on 2.2.06, I suspect that we've found the issue.

[Marco Giustini]

I had a look at the manual, Michael, and I didn't find anything. Not on the XD10, or the XD20. In any case I doubt it would take 20 seconds to eventually go to the next reel.

[Michael Zarits]

I'm not familiar with XD20s but with 6 and 6Ds there is a jumper to switch between platter and changeover mode on the D422 board. Is there a chance that the XD20 has a similar setting and is set to platter mode?

[Marco Giustini]

Let's check this together so you can sanity check this for me.

Film starts, everything seems to be ok, some edits at 17m but nothing serious.

6] [Sep 11 17:30:47] TC: drop at : R14 00:02:23 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:30:47] TC: Start at : R01 00:04:16 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:30:47] Captions: Check - S14198 T1 Font:50, L: SWD [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:30:47] Serial: Check SN:14198 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:30:47] TC: Edit from R01 00:04:24 to R01 00:04:25 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:30:47] DTS Audio ON [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:30:47] Format OUT: P5-DTS Pulse [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:30:48] TC: SN=: 14197 R01 00:05:10 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:30:48] SndTrk: Check - SN:14197 R:1 L:LAST[1] [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:30:48] SndTrk: Open cffa8107ecb799e220bc0d277500cc1c.snd "Joker " C:5 SN:14197/0 R:1 L: ENG [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:30:48] Nar: Check S:14197 R:1 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:30:48] SndTrk: Edit from 00:03:10(0652) to 00:05:00(0824) [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:30:49] Captions: Check - S14197 T0 Font:50, L: SWD [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:30:49] Captions: c8cd845fb68a1780e95aaf6d41ddeb51.sbt "Joker" SN:14197/0 T:0 L: SWD S:100 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:30:49] Serial: Check SN:14197 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:40:01] TC: Edit from R01 09:16:10 to R01 09:16:12 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:48:07] TC: drop at : R01 17:19:29 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:48:07] TC: Start at : R01 17:20:02 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:48:08] TC: SN=: 14197 R01 17:20:16 [29]

Reel 1 ends

[6] [Sep 11 17:50:01] TC: drop at : R01 19:13:17 [29]​

Reel 2 takes over

[6] [Sep 11 17:50:01] TC: Start at : R02 00:04:06 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:50:01] TC: SN=: 14197 R02 00:04:08 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:50:01] SndTrk: Check - SN:14197 R:2 L:LAST[1] [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:50:01] SndTrk: Open 0a341aedfcdee4b58a5eab1ba7faff62.snd "Joker " C:5 SN:14197/0 R:2 L: ENG [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:50:01] Nar: Check S:14197 R:2 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:50:01] SndTrk: Edit from 19:12:26(0320) to 00:03:12(0740) [29]​

I don't see an issue here, reel 1 stops at 17:50:01 and Reel 2 starts at 17:50:01. No delays.

There is one edit in Reel 2 - nothing to be worried about I guess.

[6] [Sep 11 18:00:13] TC: Edit from R02 10:12:17 to R02 10:12:19 [29]

Then there is an End Of File - you've reached the end of the reel (leader included) and the file so playback stops

[6] [Sep 11 18:07:45] SndTrk: EOF (17:41:06(0988)) [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:07:46] DTS Audio OFF [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:07:46] Format OUT: P4-SR-D [29]​

Then it goes back to Reel 2?? and with a time which is AFTER the End Of File shown above??
Reel 3 also takes over, 20 seconds in as you say.

[6] [Sep 11 18:07:53] TC: Edit from R02 17:50:04 to R02 17:50:06 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:07:53] TC: Edit from R02 17:50:08 to R03 00:20:03 [29]​

Reel 3 plays without issues.
Then, again, it reaches the EOF and playback stops

[6] [Sep 11 18:07:54] SndTrk: Check - SN:14197 R:3 L:LAST[1] [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:07:54] SndTrk: Open 413168976486a6680fb5f95a93aa08a2.snd "Joker " C:5 SN:14197/0 R:3 L: ENG [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:07:54] Nar: Check S:14197 R:3 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:07:54] SndTrk: Edit from 17:41:06(0592) to 00:19:12(1180) [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:07:55] DTS Audio ON [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:07:55] Format OUT: P5-DTS Pulse [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:16:07] TC: Edit from R03 08:31:06 to R03 08:31:08 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:26:17] SndTrk: EOF (18:37:23(1118)) [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:26:18] DTS Audio OFF [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:26:18] Format OUT: P4-SR-D [29]​

Then, as before, Reel 3 re-appears for a few frames and edits to reel 4

[6] [Sep 11 18:26:26] TC: Edit from R03 18:47:15 to R03 18:47:17 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:26:26] TC: drop at : R03 18:47:18 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:26:27] TC: Start at : R04 00:22:24 [29]​

Reel 4 starts, 22 seconds in

[6] [Sep 11 18:26:27] TC: SN=: 14197 R04 00:22:28 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:26:27] SndTrk: Check - SN:14197 R:4 L:LAST[1] [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:26:27] SndTrk: Open b556ff244e3bce444590169d2cab8cda.snd "Joker " C:5 SN:14197/0 R:4 L: ENG [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:26:27] Nar: Check S:14197 R:4 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:26:27] SndTrk: Edit from 18:37:22(1416) to 00:22:02(0612) [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:26:28] DTS Audio ON [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:26:28] Format OUT: P5-DTS Pulse [29]​

They all do the same so I'll stop here.

I am not familiar with logs belonging to a changeover system so maybe it's normal for the XD10 to show an edit to the following reel even though the previous reel had ended 20 seconds before.
What I see is that you don't seem to have timecode issue, there are a few edits here and there but I don't think that's an issue.
But clearly the player is not receiving the timecode of the following reel until it's 20 seconds in (actually 15/16 seconds in as FFOA is at 4s-ish).

So I think we're going back to
- Mechanical issues. Speed issues.
- Did you check the video voltage of the heads?
- Check that you actually have the heads wired correctly in that Y cable.You don't by any chance have both heads wired to the same input pin? Or reversed (P1 to P2 etc)
- Do the tests I mentioned above
- Are the LEDs of both heads always on? You don't by any chance have some automation which is turning them off when the motors are not running?
- I'd imagine the green LED of the soundheads turns off during those 15 seconds, can you confirm? This is what the logs say anyways...

Like its just sending what ever its got down stream and the down stream stuff has to figure out if its the correct speed and how to deal with jumps and gaps? Or is there some smarts involved with error correction and managing both inputs?

Timecode is dumb. It sends serial number and position. It's the XD10 figuring out everything else. It's a simple 1 and 0 signal.

An "edit" like this

[6] [Sep 11 17:48:07] TC: drop at : R01 17:19:29 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:48:07] TC: Start at : R01 17:20:02 [29]​

Means that the timecode became unreadable at 17:19:29 and was readable again at 17:20:02. The timecode should be 30fps so you've lost 2 frames - in your case there is probably no adjustment needed from the XD20's perspective. If there was a splice, the player might do an actual sound edit.

I only see a few of those, I'd imagine it's ok. If you see many, that points to a projector/head/print problem.

[Tj Hopland]

I will be curious to see someone that knows for sure what they are looking at break this down. I see several things that seem like issues but but maybe its all normal and not related to the current issues? Is there a different log for the time code? It looks like this one is after what ever processing is going on acquiring the timecode. Does anyone know is the timecode part of thing really dumb and basic? Like its just sending what ever its got down stream and the down stream stuff has to figure out if its the correct speed and how to deal with jumps and gaps? Or is there some smarts involved with error correction and managing both inputs?

[Jerry G. Axelsson]

Hello again,

We did some additional testing today with the 70mm DTS print of JOKER.

The following happend. When running R1 the reel ran stable througout without issues until the timecode ended on the tail leader. We did the change-over to R2 which does not kick-in until 20 sec into the reel.
The same thing happend when running R2 to R3. Reads out on the tail until the timecode ends, then about 20 sec into R3 the sound starts after a 15-20 Sec drop-out in sound.

We also did the same procedure again with running R1 and change-over to R2. Same drop-out with 15-20 sec again. We stopped R2 and rewound it. Started the same projector again
and the sound starts directly at 2-3 sec into the time-code. Starts from the first image, not 20 sec into the reel.
So I guess that clears the readers.

Here are the log files from the problemactic show of JOKER last week:



[6] [Sep 11 17:30:47] TC: drop at : R14 00:02:23 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:30:47] TC: Start at : R01 00:04:16 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:30:47] Captions: Check - S14198 T1 Font:50, L: SWD [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:30:47] Serial: Check SN:14198 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:30:47] TC: Edit from R01 00:04:24 to R01 00:04:25 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:30:47] DTS Audio ON [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:30:47] Format OUT: P5-DTS Pulse [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:30:48] TC: SN=: 14197 R01 00:05:10 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:30:48] SndTrk: Check - SN:14197 R:1 L:LAST[1] [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:30:48] SndTrk: Open cffa8107ecb799e220bc0d277500cc1c.snd "Joker " C:5 SN:14197/0 R:1 L: ENG [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:30:48] Nar: Check S:14197 R:1 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:30:48] SndTrk: Edit from 00:03:10(0652) to 00:05:00(0824) [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:30:49] Captions: Check - S14197 T0 Font:50, L: SWD [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:30:49] Captions: c8cd845fb68a1780e95aaf6d41ddeb51.sbt "Joker" SN:14197/0 T:0 L: SWD S:100 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:30:49] Serial: Check SN:14197 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:40:01] TC: Edit from R01 09:16:10 to R01 09:16:12 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:48:07] TC: drop at : R01 17:19:29 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:48:07] TC: Start at : R01 17:20:02 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:48:08] TC: SN=: 14197 R01 17:20:16 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:50:01] TC: drop at : R01 19:13:17 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:50:01] TC: Start at : R02 00:04:06 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:50:01] TC: SN=: 14197 R02 00:04:08 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:50:01] SndTrk: Check - SN:14197 R:2 L:LAST[1] [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:50:01] SndTrk: Open 0a341aedfcdee4b58a5eab1ba7faff62.snd "Joker " C:5 SN:14197/0 R:2 L: ENG [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:50:01] Nar: Check S:14197 R:2 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 17:50:01] SndTrk: Edit from 19:12:26(0320) to 00:03:12(0740) [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:00:13] TC: Edit from R02 10:12:17 to R02 10:12:19 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:07:45] SndTrk: EOF (17:41:06(0988)) [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:07:46] DTS Audio OFF [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:07:46] Format OUT: P4-SR-D [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:07:53] TC: Edit from R02 17:50:04 to R02 17:50:06 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:07:53] TC: Edit from R02 17:50:08 to R03 00:20:03 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:07:54] SndTrk: Check - SN:14197 R:3 L:LAST[1] [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:07:54] SndTrk: Open 413168976486a6680fb5f95a93aa08a2.snd "Joker " C:5 SN:14197/0 R:3 L: ENG [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:07:54] Nar: Check S:14197 R:3 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:07:54] SndTrk: Edit from 17:41:06(0592) to 00:19:12(1180) [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:07:55] DTS Audio ON [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:07:55] Format OUT: P5-DTS Pulse [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:16:07] TC: Edit from R03 08:31:06 to R03 08:31:08 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:26:17] SndTrk: EOF (18:37:23(1118)) [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:26:18] DTS Audio OFF [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:26:18] Format OUT: P4-SR-D [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:26:26] TC: Edit from R03 18:47:15 to R03 18:47:17 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:26:26] TC: drop at : R03 18:47:18 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:26:27] TC: Start at : R04 00:22:24 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:26:27] TC: SN=: 14197 R04 00:22:28 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:26:27] SndTrk: Check - SN:14197 R:4 L:LAST[1] [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:26:27] SndTrk: Open b556ff244e3bce444590169d2cab8cda.snd "Joker " C:5 SN:14197/0 R:4 L: ENG [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:26:27] Nar: Check S:14197 R:4 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:26:27] SndTrk: Edit from 18:37:22(1416) to 00:22:02(0612) [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:26:28] DTS Audio ON [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:26:28] Format OUT: P5-DTS Pulse [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:34:01] TC: Edit from R04 07:54:23 to R04 07:54:25 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:44:29] SndTrk: EOF (18:17:26(0884)) [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:44:30] DTS Audio OFF [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:44:30] Format OUT: P4-SR-D [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:44:38] TC: drop at : R04 18:27:26 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:44:38] TC: Start at : R05 00:21:23 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:44:38] TC: SN=: 14197 R05 00:21:26 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:44:38] SndTrk: Check - SN:14197 R:5 L:LAST[1] [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:44:38] SndTrk: Open 0c2770b40a26e66082752dd8b48f2a70.snd "Joker " C:5 SN:14197/0 R:5 L: ENG [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:44:38] Nar: Check S:14197 R:5 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:44:38] SndTrk: Edit from 18:17:26(0264) to 00:21:00(0924) [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:44:39] DTS Audio ON [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:44:39] Format OUT: P5-DTS Pulse [29]
[6] [Sep 11 18:49:44] TC: Edit from R05 05:25:27 to R05 05:25:29 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 19:01:04] TC: Edit from R05 16:42:27 to R05 16:42:29 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 19:01:20] SndTrk: EOF (16:57:20(0476)) [29]
[6] [Sep 11 19:01:21] DTS Audio OFF [29]
[6] [Sep 11 19:01:21] Format OUT: P4-SR-D [29]
[6] [Sep 11 19:01:28] TC: drop at : R05 17:07:00 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 19:01:29] TC: Start at : R06 00:20:26 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 19:01:29] TC: SN=: 14197 R06 00:21:10 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 19:01:29] SndTrk: Check - SN:14197 R:6 L:LAST[1] [29]
[6] [Sep 11 19:01:29] SndTrk: Open b5d2a17d853ab39af61a072cca5facda.snd "Joker " C:5 SN:14197/0 R:6 L: ENG [29]
[6] [Sep 11 19:01:29] Nar: Check S:14197 R:6 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 19:01:29] SndTrk: Edit from 16:57:19(1010) to 00:20:14(0548) [29]
[6] [Sep 11 19:01:30] DTS Audio ON [29]
[6] [Sep 11 19:01:30] Format OUT: P5-DTS Pulse [29]
[6] [Sep 11 19:07:59] TC: drop at : R06 06:49:01 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 19:07:59] TC: Start at : R06 06:49:04 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 19:08:00] TC: SN=: 14197 R06 06:49:18 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 19:16:56] SndTrk: EOF (15:42:16(1228)) [29]
[6] [Sep 11 19:16:57] DTS Audio OFF [29]
[6] [Sep 11 19:16:57] Format OUT: P4-SR-D [29]
[6] [Sep 11 19:17:04] TC: drop at : R06 15:50:28 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 19:17:04] TC: Start at : R07 00:18:24 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 19:17:05] TC: SN=: 14197 R07 00:19:06 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 19:17:05] SndTrk: Check - SN:14197 R:7 L:LAST[1] [29]
[6] [Sep 11 19:17:05] SndTrk: Open f7b9c54e593a5574268d415ce5633ace.snd "Joker " C:5 SN:14197/0 R:7 L: ENG [29]
[6] [Sep 11 19:17:05] Nar: Check S:14197 R:7 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 19:17:05] SndTrk: Edit from 15:42:15(1406) to 00:18:10(0560) [29]
[6] [Sep 11 19:17:05] DTS Audio ON [29]
[6] [Sep 11 19:17:05] Format OUT: P5-DTS Pulse [29]
[6] [Sep 11 19:23:41] TC: Edit from R07 06:53:10 to R07 06:53:12 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 19:29:29] TC: Edit from R07 12:39:20 to R07 12:39:22 [29]
[6] [Sep 11 19:32:45] SndTrk: EOF (15:53:29(0970)) [29]
[6] [Sep 11 19:32:46] DTS Audio OFF [29]
[6] [Sep 11 19:32:46] Format OUT: P7-Nonsync (1) [29]
[6] [Sep 11 19:33:04] TC: drop at : R07 16:13:20 [29]

[Marco Giustini]

A mechanical check won't hurt.

But to me it sounds like it's not accepting the timecode from the following reel UNTIL the timecode from the preceding reel has completely run out.

Jerry,
I forgot: if you attach a set of logs and indicate a date and a movie title, we can see what happened. There is a log file which shows exactly all the timecode edits etc. I don't know if it also shows P1 and P2, that would be great. But it does shows dropouts so it would help a lot.

I cannot remember if it's the Diagnostic logs or the Logs - if you can extract both and attach them here, that would be helpful

[Tj Hopland]

What I was wondering is if its locking onto the incoming code but for some mechanical reason it momentarily becomes invalid but it still has the outgoing code so it gets a little confused and maybe tries to switch back but then the incoming becomes valid again. In the confusion its runs out the buffer or doesn't have the time to do its live editing that it normally does between the reels so it drops out? That's why I'm focused on making sure there is nothing mechanically causing it. There is a decent amount of film and a bunch of rollers between that heavy reel and the first sprocket so it doesn't take much to upset things especially at first when you are going from zero to full speed fairly quickly.

[Marco Giustini]

Is the signal level check and adjustment procedure in the manuals? Or was that a top secret process? If thats not right I could see it then being sensitive to things like sharpness or density in the printing.

You can check the video level (the LED brightness level basically) by checking the voltage on two test points on the heads. For a better check, you can check the actual signal with an oscilloscope - it's a simple signal, you're just looking for a clear output basically.

I don't think that not having timecode on leaders could be our problem here. Even if timecode ended at the last frame and started at the first frame of the following reel, the XD20 would still have time to seek and play while the FFOA reached the gate.

What if the affected print simply had bad timecode at the beginning of some reels? Again, this is 2025 and film knowledge is fading away. What if the affected prints were just badly printed and DTS timecode is unreadable/missing from the beginning of the affected reels? Or simply not contrasted enough and Jerry's heads are a bit weak.

One more thing: in my experience with DTS I have encountered a few heads which simply refused to work reliably, no matter how much I tried to adjust them, even guided by DTS tech support. On both systems where I experienced those issues, a replacement or repair/exchange head had always fixed reading issues. In both cases the head went from Rev F. to Rev H. PCB revision can be seen without disassembling the heads, but the 9-pin connector needs to be unplugged to peek inside.

it's either going longer than 2sec without a valid timecode (the buffer size)

Buffer size should be 4.5s AFAIK - unless you run out of data on the file (i.e. at the end of the reel)

[Ryan Gallagher]

Specifically, because Jerry is "hearing" the dropout... it's either going longer than 2sec without a valid timecode (the buffer size), or it has a timecode (perhaps in the tail) but is running out of information in the reel file (and for whatever reason has not taken the subsequent reel and timecode when it logically should have).

[Ryan Gallagher]

Yeah TJ, Someone with more exact DTS implementation knowledge would have to weigh in, but my understanding was the players would switch to a 2nd valid timecode as soon as it was present (or at the FFOA picture start), but that may not be true for reasons of avoiding accidents while threading and advancing to the countdown. DTS readers can after all be mounted in all kinds of weird places with varying offsets. It may be that on most prints without timecode much past the changeover it simply switches seamlessly as the first reader drops offline.

But if there is timecode out there way past the changeover... it may stay on that reel/reader, and perhaps in a couple unusual printings that timecode actually goes beyond the DTS reel file termination, and the hiccup Jerry is experiencing is it staying on a valid reel timecode but with no more reel file information to play? And once that timecode vanishes it then picks up on the subsequent reel?

This would make me think all changeover venues should experience it though. Perhaps Jerry is just paying more attention than most? Or it is a particular quirk of XD20s? Of the modern printings we have only played NxNW and Searchers here. Close Encounters upcoming... but according to Brad this variable tail timecode was before those.

Your instinct that maybe it's not quite up to speed or something at the FFOA could also be relevant, causing it to stay on the prior reel, combined with extensive timecode on certain tails that may go beyond a reel file end point?

What number are you framing on in the countdowns Jerry? (aka how fast or slow is your motor ramp up?) How do your feed reels and clutch tension behave when you first motor on? Is there a lot of overspin or bounce initially before things settle down?

[Tj Hopland]

Not printing on the tails is an interesting tidbit. So if it was on the tail there was perhaps a longer period where it had 2 'valid' codes coming in? So if something wasn't right about the incoming it would maybe see it still had the outgoing and start buffering that again rather than working on the incoming stream? But if it wasn't there then maybe it doesn't get distracted?

Is the signal level check and adjustment procedure in the manuals? Or was that a top secret process? If thats not right I could see it then being sensitive to things like sharpness or density in the printing.

Another thought is do you have a way to measure and compare the speed of your projectors including the ramp up? I no longer remember what the window was or if it changed with different models or software but I do remember having one site that had issues and we eventually figured out the speed was a little off and it was often just on the edge of what the player could handle. It apparently does get into the happy range at some point I'm just wondering if there is something thats going on causing it to take longer to get happy than the other machine.

Maybe the one machine has some belt or clutch slippage assuming stock setup so it takes just a bit longer or maybe hits the minimum speed but then momentarily sags again before locking in? If its a dual motor have those rubber sleeve things been replaced that couple the motor pulley to the main drive shaft? How are the belt(s)? If they are a little stiff and not running daily like they used to maybe they got kinda a set to them and are a little lumpy? With single motor do they both have one or both belts? The dual belts especially as the belts get old and stiff adds a decent amount of drag and that's if the clutch bearings are still happy. Motor caps still within spec and matching between the machines? If its a VFD are they both the same models and programmed the same?