Schneider Anamorphics

[Paul Finn]

I have a pair of Schneider WA Cinelux 2X MC like new anamorphic lenses. When I put an Isco Ultra MC 35/70 F2.2/145mm (5.71in.) prime/back-up lens behind them, the picture cannot be focused. This is not just the astigmatism adjustment, but the whole picture cannot be focused! When I put the same Isco 35/70 lens behind an Isco anamorphic adapter, everything is fine and normal as I would expect. Has anyone here seen this issue with the Schneider anamorphics and Isco back-up lens combinationan? Possibly offer an explanation?

Thank you, Paul Finn

[Sascha Roll]

Yes, this is a known issue for decades - some Schneider and ISCO prime lenses / anamorphic lenses are not compatible.
Why is that? I have no idea.

[Steve Guttag]

Yes, it has been known for decades, as Sascha says...but not for the reason he says. You could put Schneiders behind that anamorphic and it won't focus. Schneider did a horrible job with their full sized anamorphics from the 1980s (after they spit from ISCO) through the '90s. As the story goes, the screws that hold their elements (just 4 in a Schneider) would let the lens elements move and cause misalignment. You could send them back for recalibration on an optical bench but I think the design is severely flawed and will get that way again (depending on handling or even shipping).

Late model Schneiders (the ones where the bulk of the lens was 70.6mm diameter and then bumped out at the last 3rd or so for the astigmatism and exit didn't have the problem. Neither did their compact anamorphics (both the original compact and the "ES" version).

But, even on a good day, ISCO just buried Schneider on anamorphics. The Ultra, Ultra Star, and Blue-Star were significantly better (though they too, could be knocked out of alignment but it was much more rare).

Any Schneider anamorphic that looks like this (either wide barrel or the later narrow ones, more suitable for turrets) are junk:

image.png

Conversely, if you have this style (late 90s...right around 1999 and after)

image.png

It should be fine, but anything is possible.

It was more telling that after Schneider re-acquired ISCO (from bankruptcy), it was the ISCO anamorphics that survived, not the Schneider things. Again, I had good luck with the Schneider compact anamorphics. But the full-sized ones, I wouldn't even trust them to hold down paper. They don't even do a good job at the 2:1 expansion.

[Sascha Roll]

Speaking of Schneider Anamorphics:

I have to equip a room with 35mm soon, pretty long focal length for Scope as its coming width with motorized top/bottom masking.
Scope will be 135-140mm, which I do not have a base lens for.

What I do have, brand new in Box, unused, is a Schneider "Tele" anamorphic, 0,5x - the last one they made, from the shelf of Schneider before they trashed everything.

Plenty of Cinelux Prime lenses in 65, 67,5, 70mm and so on are available.

Do you have any experience if this will give good Results, Steve?

Will go into a FP30ECII.

[Steve Guttag]

Sasha,

Reverse anamorphics are always a compromise, in my experience. They tend to give people "mumps" like the CinemaScope of yore. But, in long EF situations, it is tough not to use them. Even ISCO just offered the one 4-element version. I can't say to have experience with the last incarnation of Schneider reverse anamorphic. My gut tells me, if it is post 1999, then it is probably as good as the next reverse anamorphic. It will not be as good as a proper 130-140mm prime lens behind a normal anamorphic (Blue-Star being my personal favorite). With Schneider prime lenses (above 100mm), one can, often, fabricate an f/stop ring (Schneider offered them for some sizes) since they can be unscrewed into two halves. That could be handy in your situation since Scope is going to be much brighter than 1.85:1 Flat.

Good luck. I hope it works out.

[Sascha Roll]

Appreciated as always, Steve.
Projector will go in next friday, currently preparing all the wiring and getting a small selection of lenses out of storage.
Will let you know how it's going!

(And yes, I'm also 100% in the ISCO-team, wins every single time in a shoot-out. I will say, the Schneiders I tend to rate best are the VP Cinelux series. Those are pretty decent.)

[Steve Guttag]

I used the VP-Cinelux with 16mm, mostly (Kinoton FP38E projectors). Or, if I was using a precut plate in a screening room and had to fit a screen. Yes, in general, I preferred ISCO lenses over Schneider. They could resolve better and they didn't discolor the image. Schneiders will blue-up an image. Now that we all have spectroradiometers, you can measure how Schneider lenses discolored the image. I had a film lab outright disqualify Schneider lenses on their QC machine because they would alter the color. They always shifted the image blue.

[Sascha Roll]

Assembled - will see how it's looking on screen this weekend, hopefully.