XD10 ON/OFF behaviour

[Marco Giustini]

I have two XD10's, virtually identical. Same motherboard, Asus.

To offer the ON/OFF feature on ATX motherboards, DTS developed a small circuit board with some logic on it. It plugs into the rocker switch at the front panel, taps into the "Power ON" line of the PSU and also plugs into the front panel connector on the motherboard. The purpose of this contraption is to turn on/off the system with a rocker switch when the motherboard would expect a "modern computer" behaviour.

Now, one XD10 behaves like the below:

XD10 is off.
I flip the switch to ON
XD10 immediately turns on
Once the system is working, if I flip the switch to the OFF position, the XD10 turns off IMMEDIATELY.

The other XD10 behaves differently.
XD10 is off.
I flip the switch to ON
XD10 immediately turns on
Once the system is working, if I flip the switch to the OFF position, the XD10 turns off after 4 seconds (which is the behaviour of an ATX power on terminal)

I see that older motherboards - AOpen - don't have this contraption and the front panel rocker switch is driving the PSU directly. I'd imagine the Asus MB needs to be woken up to work.

So my question is: is the latter Asus behaviour expected? I wouldn't be concerned about it if I didn't have another identical XD10 behaving differently.

In the install script I found a little section of code: it seems that when the Power button is triggered, the software is checking whether there is a process running, if it's not running it's issuing the "poweroff" command. So some delay seems to be expected, it's the exactly "4 seconds" delay which puzzles me, that is what an ATX system would do when you hold the power ON button for 4 seconds! Also, that cannot work with the AOPEN boards where the front panel switch is directly driving the Power On line of the PSU.

Any feedback would be very useful!

[Ryan Gallagher]

Our XD10 behaves exactly like your 1st example, without the "off-request" motherboard communication and delay. I expect it was normal for that generation/hw-revision.... I believe this topic also came up in some recent DTS modification threads... and it was possible to add the soft-shutdown... though it may depend on MB versions.

Having done a full reinstall to SSD myself, i'm not too worried about modifying ours to avoid issues caused by hard shutdowns... if some disc writes get corrupted I'll just put a fresh system on it. Though I probably should investigate routing it's power over to the UPS, it's in an older in-wall rack without UPS.

One of the DTS threads, I think there were others.
https://www.film-tech.com/vbb/forum/...-card-playback

EDIT: I meant your 1st example.

[Marco Giustini]

Btw. to prevent corruptions on XD10s I suggest to replace the main switch to a momentary switch and plug it to the standard power pins on the mainboard. This shuts down the unit properly like a regular PC instead of killing it by cutting the power. You can also modify the actual switch to a momentary switch by inserting a spring.

ahhh! Thanks Ryan.

I never really understood the need for that contraption. And I never liked turning off computers by removing power.
On the "delayed" unit, if I flip the switch for a moment to "off" and then back to "on", the OS gets the "shutdown" signal indeed. I might follow Michael's recommendation here.

I need to open the other XD10 (the one without delay) to see how it's wired. In any case, I don't like that behaviour. Thanks for reminding me of that thread and for taking the time to share your experience.

Edit: just checked, my two XD10's are identical, yet the power on/off behaviour differs. I think the contraption is wired differently between the two.
I'd be tempted to change them to what Michael suggests.
Two downsides of doing that, for the average cinema people is:
1. The front panel labelling is going to be wrong.
2. While the OS shuts down, the LCD will say "software fault, player disabled".

Not an issue with me but we know what happens in the average cinema ?

[Michael Zarits]

Marco, you can replace the flip switch by a momentary switch and plug it into the mainboard's power pins to shut down the XD10 like a regular PC and prevent file corruption by a hard shutdown. I modified all my XD10s to execute a proper shutdown.

[Ryan Gallagher]

ahhh! Thanks Ryan.

I never really understood the need for that contraption. And I never liked turning off computers by removing power.
On the "delayed" unit, if I flip the switch for a moment to "off" and then back to "on", the OS gets the "shutdown" signal indeed. I might follow Michael's recommendation here.

I need to open the other XD10 (the one without delay) to see how it's wired. In any case, I don't like that behaviour. Thanks for reminding me of that thread and for taking the time to share your experience.

Edit: just checked, my two XD10's are identical, yet the power on/off behaviour differs. I think the contraption is wired differently between the two.
I'd be tempted to change them to what Michael suggests.
Two downsides of doing that, for the average cinema people is:
1. The front panel labelling is going to be wrong.
2. While the OS shuts down, the LCD will say "software fault, player disabled".

Not an issue with me but we know what happens in the average cinema ?

I suppose there is a chance one of your two units has been modded by a prior owner? Someone might, but I don't know if the XD10 had hardware revisions to the shutdown mechanism. But yeah, if these units are destined for integrations, not sure weird errors after the OS shuts down are good. I'd be tempted to add a second momentary switch to the face panel, and label it "safe shutdown" or something to that effect, then the rocker is just for power. Hopefully with the context of the button and rocker, an operator could understand what the LCD error is all about?

Marco, you can replace the flip switch by a momentary switch and plug it into the mainboard's power pins to shut down the XD10 like a regular PC and prevent file corruption by a hard shutdown. I modified all my XD10s to execute a proper shutdown.

What do your LCDs do when it goes into soft shutdown that way Michael? Sounds like Marco is trying to avoid the weird half on half off state for operator clarity.

[Marco Giustini]

Marco, you can replace the flip switch by a momentary switch and plug it into the mainboard's power pins to shut down the XD10 like a regular PC and prevent file corruption by a hard shutdown. I modified all my XD10s to execute a proper shutdown.

Hi Michael,

Yes, I was thinking of that indeed. WHY on earth did DTS use that cumbersome logic?? The only disadvantage when turning off via push-button is the concerning message on the LCD - well, might be concerning for someone who is not aware of the change.
It would have been much simpler to just code a better message "system is shutting down, please wait".

SCR-20250709-reww.png

Ryan,
I think the PSU was replaced and never rewired properly.
My understanding is that:

AOPEN: those just start when power is applied. So the rocker switch is wired to the Power On wires of the PSU. Basically we are turning on and off the PSU. No additional logic is installed.
ASUS: those don't start when power is applied, shorting the "power on" pins on the MB is also necessary. So they made this silly board which senses the situation and "wakes up" the motherboard when power is applied. I don't understand the power off though - the front switch is only wired in parallel to the "PON" wires and the MB will keep shorting those wires once the switch is flipped to "off". Hence I understand why one of the XD10 takes 4 seconds to turn off (like any ATX PC). I'll have to open my own XD10 and compare ?

I don't see this as a massive issue as long as a label at the front is added. Yet, I am not a fan of the concerning message when shutting down! I can totally see a cinema asking for support when they see that message at night.

The silly logic board is this, that is a PIC.
IMG_5945 Medium.jpg

[Ryan Gallagher]

Unfortunately I did not make note of which MB brand I had when I had mine open, but based on your description I would assume an AOPEN model since that is the power off behavior I have.

Aside, I picked up an XD20 via ebay personally, it has an ASUS MB and Seasonic supply. But it boots into a "Boot Failed, No Host Response" screen. I've not investigated yet.

It has it's 250gb HDD installed. But also floating around in the case is a 40pin IDE Transcend Flash module. It has it's two power pins but is not plugged in anywhere. Does that belong in the primary IDE port?

EDIT: Yup. Hah, that was an easy fix, it got past boot and is now checking the storage partitions. Might have a good XD20 minus the up button which was MIA, though the momentary it activated still works.

[Michael Zarits]

for someone who is not aware of the change.
It would have been much simpler to just code a better message "system is shutting down, please wait".[/ATTACH][/URL]

Absolutely. This message always appears whenever the mainboard in not in a standard-XD10 operation. Anyways, despite it's kinda stupid to have this message when turning the unit off, it's the only way to perform a clean shutdown.

[Marco Giustini]

Never seen an XD20, interesting that they moved the OS to an IDE module!

Can you post a picture of the inside of that machine?

My own XD10 has an ASUS but turns on and off instantly so the one I am working on - still an Asus - has something "wrong". But I'd be tempted to follow Michael's suggestion, remove the contraption and just use it as a normal ATX, modern computer.

it's the only way to perform a clean shutdown.

It's fun that the system allows for that, this is from the install script

SCR-20250709-suab.png

[Ryan Gallagher]

I don't have the DR1 drive unit, but mine is similar to here:
https://brucesentertainment.com/DTS_...eet_290908.pdf

Although there appear to have been some hardware revisions. Mine is "upside down" relative to the rear photo they included... motherboard is near the top, multip pin and RCA near the bottom. I wonder what is going on there. lol.

It would appear to have been DTS/Datasat's entry into the space of "media players" that could play alt preshow content etc, while also performing it's other functions.

Internal photos attached.

[Marco Giustini]

Very interesting. thanks.

What brand and model of motherboard is that? At least they added a fan on that one - the XD10 is shockingly under-cooled.

I like the DTS board with the outputs UNDER the MB!

[Ryan Gallagher]

Very interesting. thanks.

What brand and model of motherboard is that? At least they added a fan on that one - the XD10 is shockingly under-cooled.

I like the DTS board with the outputs UNDER the MB!

It would seem if I wanted to peel that DATASAT logo, there is a big DTS logo under it most likely. ;-) MB is an Asus on this one. Modern enough to have SATA HDD without the need for an adapter board! Fancy! lol.

[Marco Giustini]

I've always wondered why the ugly logo! ? If I had an XD20, I'd probably peel that off! "Datasat" just doesn't sound right!

I am going to be a pain in the neck here and ask what model that Asus MB is - next time you take a peek inside, no rush ?
The old XD10's ASUS also have SATA on it - it's the AOPEN which doesn't have it...