ISCO projection lenses serial numbers

[Johannes Schmalzl]

Together with a friend of mine, I'm trying to assemble an overview of ISCO projection lens serial numbers. I already managed to provide something like that for the early Optische Werke Goettingen, Kiptar, Super-Kiptar era:





However we don't have a firm grasp on the later (golden and red) lens series yet, where ISCO seems to have reset the system frequently.

Here‘s my current theory:

- I think ISCO restarted their serial numbers after the 101XXXXX numbers the golden Super-Kiptars/Cinelux-Xenons and some early Cinelux-Ultra MCs shared.
- some of the later Cinelux-Ultra MCs got a five-digit number.
- the Ultra-MC (non Cinelux) might have gotten their own numbers as well. they started with 5 digits and were later extended to 6 digits.
- The Ultra-Star HD already started with 6 digits, however with 0s in front.
- the Ultra-Star HD Plus also got their own system.

If you have any of those lenses, ISCO Cinelux-Xenon, Ultra-MC, Cinelux-Ultra, Cinelux Outdoor, Ultra-Star HD, Ultra-Star HD Plus, Kiptron and can provide some serial numbers it would help us out a lot.

Thank you very much!

[Steve Guttag]

The Ultra-MC after Cinelux (and if you have some circa 1985ish lenses, you'll see milled areas on the ID ring to remove Cinelux, a Schneider name, when the two companies parted ways for a couple of decades.

ISCO definitely changed their numbering system about the time they adopted "ISCO-OPTIC" The first digit was the year of manufacture, then the EF of the lens and finally the sequence number. However, that did change, as I recall. I don't know if we have any Xenons (typically f/1.7 lenses for more light) but should have Ultra, Ultra-Star, Ultra Star Plus. For Kiptron...do you mean Kiptaron? I've never seen Kiptron or always read it as Kiptaron by mistake. I don't know if we have any of those, regardless. We probably have a Kiptakon or two and certainly Kiptar.

[Johannes Schmalzl]

The Ultra-MC after Cinelux (and if you have some circa 1985ish lenses, you'll see milled areas on the ID ring to remove Cinelux, a Schneider name, when the two companies parted ways for a couple of decades.

ISCO definitely changed their numbering system about the time they adopted "ISCO-OPTIC" The first digit was the year of manufacture, then the EF of the lens and finally the sequence number. However, that did change, as I recall. I don't know if we have any Xenons (typically f/1.7 lenses for more light) but should have Ultra, Ultra-Star, Ultra Star Plus. For Kiptron...do you mean Kiptaron? I've never seen Kiptron or always read it as Kiptaron by mistake. I don't know if we have any of those, regardless. We probably have a Kiptakon or two and certainly Kiptar.

Thank you very much!

That's interesting. I knew about the name change due to the bankruptcy and change of ownership of ISCO and that they lost the rights to use the Cinelux name... I didn't know that inscriptions were changed after the fact.

I've also read about some meaning behind the serial numbers, but I'm not sure there is any... how can one digit be the year of manufacture for example? They would need at least two digits for that, right? If they've done soe (which is of course possible) it must have been limited to a short period of time.They also couldn't have used that system for Zoom Converters or Anamorphic attachments without changing it up. If you take a look at the lower half of the graph I've posted above, you can see some numbers, which would be hard to explain with the system mentioned...

If you have any Cinelux-Xenons I would be very curious to know. From my observations so far all of those do have a serial number of 101XXXXX and that also applies to the golden Super-Kiptar lenses which might have been their predecessors (without MC and possibly with minute changes in the optical layouts). Please let me know if you happen to find one of the Cinelux-Xenons.

The Kiptron does indeed exist and it's completely different from the Kiptaron:

Kiptron_75mm_tokopedia_endylensamanual.jpg
It's a lens made for 35 or 70 mm projection, while the Kiptaron series was usually used for 16 mm projection.

If you get a chance to take a look at the serial numbers of the lenses you've mentioned (without it being too much of a hassle) I would really appreciate it!

[Steve Guttag]

They definitely just used one digit for the year. My guess is, it was deemed sufficient to identify it as the sequence would move enough within the EF to not have an issue. Plus, they were changing models almost every decade. The Ultra MCs were all the rage in the 1980s (came out in the late 1970s)...in the late 80s (definitely by 1987), the Ultra-Star series came out. The Ultra Star Plus (red) lenses came out in 1999, as I recall. The Ultra line remained but most of the Ultra-Stars (fixed EF, not the zoom converters and anamorphic adapters) gave way to the Ultra-Star Plus, over time.

I've not seen a Kiptron before and it is interesting that it has an "ISCO-OPTIC" name, so it is later lens. Black body but with a gold ID ring.

Unfortunately, I don't know if the people that would really know the lens histories are still with us. In the US, it would have been Glenn Berggren. I haven't heard from him since before C19 and would have to think that his time has come.

[Johannes Schmalzl]

They definitely just used one digit for the year. My guess is, it was deemed sufficient to identify it as the sequence would move enough within the EF to not have an issue. Plus, they were changing models almost every decade. The Ultra MCs were all the rage in the 1980s (came out in the late 1970s)...in the late 80s (definitely by 1987), the Ultra-Star series came out. The Ultra Star Plus (red) lenses came out in 1999, as I recall. The Ultra line remained but most of the Ultra-Stars (fixed EF, not the zoom converters and anamorphic adapters) gave way to the Ultra-Star Plus, over time.

Thank you very much! Just checked with a couple of lenses and you're completely right. That's the system. It's easy to spot once you know it, but it would have taken me ages to figure out without that hint, so thanks again!

I've not seen a Kiptron before and it is interesting that it has an "ISCO-OPTIC" name, so it is later lens. Black body but with a gold ID ring.

Unfortunately, I don't know if the people that would really know the lens histories are still with us. In the US, it would have been Glenn Berggren. I haven't heard from him since before C19 and would have to think that his time has come.

Interesting - I read about Glenn Berggren (and Karl Macher) a couple of times in old projectionist magazines. I'm sure there's some documentation in the Schneider Kreuznach HQ in Bad Kreuznach as well, but unfortunately they haven't responded to my questions so far...

[Ryan Gallagher]

If you have any of those lenses, ISCO Cinelux-Xenon, Ultra-MC, Cinelux-Ultra, Cinelux Outdoor, Ultra-Star HD, Ultra-Star HD Plus, Kiptron and can provide some serial numbers it would help us out a lot.

Thank you very much!

I've DM'd you a pdf of our lens cabinet inventory... several isco-optic and serials in there.

[Johannes Schmalzl]

I've DM'd you a pdf of our lens cabinet inventory... several isco-optic and serials in there.

Thank you very much - that helps a lot!