Kinoton glass reflector flaking

[David Ferguson]

Whilst I was doing some cleaning on my Kinoton projector yesterday, I noticed that the reflective surface is peeling off one area of the lamphouse reflector. I've attached an image showing this.

I haven't used my projector in quite a few months, and I don't regularly open the lamphouse to look inside, so I am not sure when this started. I know it wasn't there in Summer 2023 as I have photos of when I last did some wiring in the lamphouse then, and it looks perfect.

The lamphouse is the smaller 1000-2000W Universal Lamphouse. It has the 28cm diameter reflector. I only have a 1000W lamp in there, which I under-run at ~37A (within the 30-55A datasheet range, but below the 50A nominal current) because I currently have it in my garage with a very small screen. The lamphouse has the original Kinoton inlet and outlet fans, which seem to be working as they should. There is no exhaust stack, it vents straight into the garage. There is no dichroic heat filter in the lamphouse - after the reflector it is straight to the gate.

I have a few questions around this:

1. What could cause this, and how can I prevent it in the future? Could it be not enough cooling? An imperfection or spot of dirt on the reflector? Something else?
2. Can you get reflectors recoated? Or is that not a service that anyone offers any more?
3. If the answer to 2. is "no" (as I suspect), then does anyone have a spare reflector they would be willing to sell?

[Steve Guttag]

I have seen reflector flaking on all sorts of reflectors. Typically, when a reflector is used...then not used for a period of time and then used again, that is what starts it up. Yours seems to have curled up a bit. I've seen entire hunks of material flake off. I've seen it on metal reflectors too but definitely on the Balzer's reflectors used by Kinoton.

[Brad Miller]

We started to notice a distinct pattern on SLC lamphouses where some of them would cause flaking of the reflector while others never did. This was on bulbs as low as 3000 watts, but was more quickly seen on larger bulbs. To keep this short I will skip over the testing methodology and just tell you the end findings was that despite all of the plenum blowers spinning freely and being the same brand/make/model and of similar age (or in some cases identical age from the same batch), some of them produced noticeable more CFM when pulled from the lamphouses and carefully measured on the bench, and by that I mean as much as just over 100CFM difference between identical fans!

All of these were on/off use with long periods of time in between uses as Steve noted. This was the case across the board on all testing, so first I would pull that blower and measure it with a CFM meter, then possibly check to see if it's gunked up or maybe needs some oil and measure it again. If there is no noticeable difference in CFM improvement, I would buy a new fan. In a couple of the cases we found that disassembling the fan, giving it a thorough cleaning and oiling it the CFM improved, but the cost of killing reflectors vs. the cost of a brand new fan made us lean towards just putting in a new fan which always produced noticeably more CFM than the questionable fans.

If by chance you have 2 identical machines and this is only happening on one, compare the two and use that as a minimum benchmark for CFM.

We have also seen this on a couple of Strong lamphouses, but on one of those it affected the heat filter before damaging the reflector.

[Marcel Birgelen]

I guess at those power and especially UV levels, it only takes a minor defect in the mirror's surface to start some kind of corrosion or delamitation process to start. I've seen similar things happening to mirrors that had to absorb some debris from an exploding Xenon bulb.

[Steve Guttag]

I should note...on the metal reflectors, I've noted that the flaking is almost always concentric whereas on Kinoton, it is more spotty...a chuck here, a chunk there.

[David Ferguson]

Thanks for this advice everyone. I definitely use this for a short while, then it sits for a few months or longer without being used. Should I be cleaning the reflector before each use, could that have helped here?

I don't have a cfm/airflow meter, but can get one if needed. What cfm value should I be looking for? Is this for both the inlet and outlet fans? Because I just have the one projector, I could just get replacement fans without measuring the airflow on these (it seems possibly a waste of money on a device to be used just once) - are there any recommended brands/models of fan?

Can this reflector be repaired, or am I now looking for a replacement?

[David Ferguson]

I was looking for replacements today, and while the Kinoton Universal Lamphouse manual talks about reflectors of diameter 300mm and 340mm, it seems that mine is different, as it has a 280mm reflector. Has anyone come across 280mm reflectors before? I am wondering if it is because it is the Kinoton FP38E range of machine, which does 35/16mm?

Maybe one of the Kinoton experts on these forums knows if I can fit a 300mm reflector (which seem more available) to my lamphouse? Everything inside mine (picture attached) looks very similar to the photos in the manual for the Universal Lamphouse.

IMG_5352.jpg

[Ryan Gallagher]

Not a Kinoton expert, but If there was a mode to install a larger reflector I would expect at minimum that base plate that is supporting the reflector standoffs to have additional mounting holes pre-drilled in it (or a slot design) There are probably other things that would have to change but that would be the bare minimum to accommodate a larger diameter?

IMG_5352.jpg

[Pete Naples]

Not a Kinoton expert, but If there was a mode to install a larger reflector I would expect at minimum that base plate that is supporting the reflector standoffs to have additional mounting holes pre-drilled in it (or a slot design) There are probably other things that would have to change but that would be the bare minimum to accommodate a larger diameter?

IMG_5352.jpg

You are correct.

IIRC the Kinoton lamphouse chassis came in two sizes, basically the smaller one (like David's) could accomodate one size of mirror and smaller lamps. The bigger one, lots more cooling, and those stanchions could move. You'd have needed the alignment kit to centre it all up too.

@David, it's not just as simple as using a different diameter of mirror, the working distance (focal length I suppose) changes too, so the distance between the mirror and the film plane changes. That's not easy to do on a Kinoton like yours. The larger lamphouse had a matching spacer on the front to allow for this. Then you get the 35/70 type which had a mechanism that slid the whole chassis back and forth when switching formats.

[Ryan Gallagher]

If sourcing a correct size one proves difficult, in other threads on the topic the prospect of using OptiForms to have them recoated has come up. Price would probably depend on if they have ever done this reflector before, assuming they can still do this kind of one off job at all.

https://www.optiforms.com/

[David Ferguson]

I've found out a lot about Kinoton lamphouses and reflectors over the past week! I know of at least three lamphouses Kinoton made (excluding the small 500W one) - the "705", and then the small Universal Lamphouse and large Universal Lamphouse. I think that's what you're referring to Pete - as the larger Universal Lamphouse did indeed have spacer at the front.

The Universal Lamphouse only seems to have taken 300mm and 340mm reflectors, but the 705 would take smaller one(s?).

@Pete, my lamphouse is a 35/16mm one, so it also has the ability to slide the whole chasis forward and back. Which could come in useful if I need to change the reflector, although it's not going to match up properly of course.

Thanks to Steve, and a couple of others, I have been able to make the following information about the reflectors offered by Kinoton in their various lamphouses.

Kinoton part number	Lamphouse size	Reflector diameter	Reflector type
	500W	(unreadable on document scan)	24/234
0040 180 001540		220	35/435
	Philips ?	280	52/500
0040 180 001500	1...2kW	280	60/540
0040 180 001530	2...7kW	280	55/825
0040 180 001560	1...2kW	300	60/540
0040 180 001510	2...7kW	300	55/825
0040 180 001550	2...7kW	340	55/825

Thanks Ryan for the name OptiForms... they do look the most promising for re-coating this. If I can't get a spare (or even if I can, for backup) then I may ask them.