NATO, AMC, Cinemark, Regal, and others Sue New Jersey over Covid Theater Closures

[Harold Hallikainen]

NATO, AMC, Cinemark, Regal, BJK, Bow Tie and Community Theaters Sue New Jersey over Covid Theater Closures



https://www.natoonline.org/wp-conten...-Complaint.pdf

[Frank Cox]

My initial reaction to this was how stupid this lawsuit is when everything else there is also closed.

But then I see that the churches and indoor shopping malls are now open in New Jersey.

So they do have a point.

[Harold Hallikainen]

Not long ago ( https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/30/u...ronavirus.html ) the US Supreme Court decided churches were similar to movie theaters and unlike retail stores with regard to covid exposure, so, in California, movie theaters were closed, so it was reasonable for churches to be closed. Here, we have the opposite! Churches are open and movie theaters are not allowed to open. I suspect this could go either way. If cases continue to get worse in NJ, they could close churches to give even treatment. Or, they could open movie theaters if cases are not bad. Anyway, I thought the parallels to the recent California case were interesting.

Harold

[Steve Guttag]

As movie theatres have moved towards a hard ticket model (assigned seats), unlike churches, movie theatres could create distancing and customers would know how far away they are from other patrons while seated. I don't think churches, with a "general seating" model really compares. States are also opening casinos over theatres, which also make no sense. There is no inherent distancing there either. Theatres should be treaded like other indoor businesses that can space people out while in line and also space people out while seated.

[Marcel Birgelen]

I hate to say this, but given the most recent findings, which seemingly even the WHO is now grudgingly starting to admit, the social distancing in indoor spaces doesn't really seem to work, as one of the main infection vectors seems to be aerosols. We've seen massive infection spikes in spaces like meat packing plants, where people generally don't touch each other and wear gloves, but work together in enclosed spaces for prolonged times.

That's also why Belgium yesterday decided to make wearing masks in all public indoor spaces mandatory, starting this Saturday.

[Lyle Romer]

I hate to say this, but given the most recent findings, which seemingly even the WHO is now grudgingly starting to admit, the social distancing in indoor spaces doesn't really seem to work, as one of the main infection vectors seems to be aerosols. We've seen massive infection spikes in spaces like meat packing plants, where people generally don't touch each other and wear gloves, but work together in enclosed spaces for prolonged times.

That's also why Belgium yesterday decided to make wearing masks in all public indoor spaces mandatory, starting this Saturday.

Meat packing plants are also kept quite cold so that likely makes them worse for transmission than a typical indoor space. Also, the workers are right on top of each other under normal operations.

As for the topic of this thread, good for them. In the US, we are guaranteed "equal protection under the law" by the constitution. Allowing one type of business to operate while not allowing a different type if they can both implement the same distancing guidelines is not treating them equally under the law.

[Allan Barnes]

Somebody has to fight back... glad it was NATO and not just one cinema. I "fought" this in Ontario, Canada and WON the right to reopen.... just 15 drive-in theatres but we are all open. But all the indoors are still closed (July 10th) remain closed including one of mine. I personally think it will be Christmas before any wants or dares to enter a cinema. Without new product, why would you want too.

[Marcel Birgelen]

Meat packing plants are also kept quite cold so that likely makes them worse for transmission than a typical indoor space. Also, the workers are right on top of each other under normal operations.

The cold climate seems to add to the longevity of the virus, but until now it was assumed that the virus was only transmitted through direct contact. It's clear that the direct contact vector alone can't explain those explosions we see in meat packaging plants.

We should not ignore the fact that it may be possible that enclosed spaces, where people tend to reside for prolonged times, may cause a pretty big risk to both visitors and maybe even more so for the people who work there. Even non-medical masks don't really help in this case.

[Leo Enticknap]

Starting around the middle of last week, we started to see the first serious heatwave of the summer (sustained daytime highs in three figures of Fahrenheit, or into the 40s of Celsius) here in Southern California. This is predicted to continue for at least another week. It'll be interesting to see if coronavirus cases start to show a significant fall after a time lag that would link the two events.

[Marcel Birgelen]

A heavy dose of UV light seems to kill the virus pretty efficiently. That's also why outside activity seems to be mostly fine, at least when the weather is good, even if social distancing is compromised and as long as people don't actually touch each other.

But I'm afraid the omnipresence of air-conditioning will do quite the opposite, since more people will flock indoors to escape the brutal temperatures. Most systems just cycle the existing air or replace maybe, just 20% of the air with fresh air from the outside. Together with an increased airflow in order to be effective, I see a perfect opportunity for the virus to even spread further...

[Lyle Romer]

The cold climate seems to add to the longevity of the virus, but until now it was assumed that the virus was only transmitted through direct contact. It's clear that the direct contact vector alone can't explain those explosions we see in meat packaging plants.

We should not ignore the fact that it may be possible that enclosed spaces, where people tend to reside for prolonged times, may cause a pretty big risk to both visitors and maybe even more so for the people who work there. Even non-medical masks don't really help in this case.

We definitely shouldn't ignore it but a meat packing plant with people working on top of each other for 8 hours or more every day in refrigerator like temperatures is a different situation than a restaurant or movie theatre with parties spaced from each other at a normal temperature. With respect to movie theatres, spacing and mask wearing when not actively eating/drinking should make it relatively low risk. Not "no" risk but low risk. If you are 70 years old or have some underlying condition that puts you at high risk, I wouldn't recommend going to a movie at this time.

A heavy dose of UV light seems to kill the virus pretty efficiently. That's also why outside activity seems to be mostly fine, at least when the weather is good, even if social distancing is compromised and as long as people don't actually touch each other.

But I'm afraid the omnipresence of air-conditioning will do quite the opposite, since more people will flock indoors to escape the brutal temperatures. Most systems just cycle the existing air or replace maybe, just 20% of the air with fresh air from the outside. Together with an increased airflow in order to be effective, I see a perfect opportunity for the virus to even spread further...

Regardless of COVID, I'm shocked that simple and relatively inexpensive UV disinfecting lamps aren't standard equipment in the HVAC systems of public buildings. You'd think that would help reduce illness spread in general and COVID specifically.

[Andrew Thomas]

Starting around the middle of last week, we started to see the first serious heatwave of the summer (sustained daytime highs in three figures of Fahrenheit, or into the 40s of Celsius) here in Southern California. This is predicted to continue for at least another week. It'll be interesting to see if coronavirus cases start to show a significant fall after a time lag that would link the two events.

It could be the opposite, more people choosing to be indoors for whatever activity rather than outdoors.

[Jim Cassedy]

The latest news on this topic:
New Jersey Judge Denies Movie Theaters' Bid for Immediate Reopening

A federal judge in New Jersey on Tuesday denied the theater industry’s request for a temporary
restraining order that would force the state to allow theaters to reopen.

Judge Brian R. Martinotti also set a schedule for litigating the industry’s request for an injunction
on the matter, with a hearing expected on or before Aug. 4.

The National Association of Theatre Owners, along with several chains including AMC, Cinemark
and Regal, filed suit on July 6, arguing that Gov. Phil Murphy had infringed on their First Amendment
rights by ordering movie theaters to close while churches, libraries and other venues remain open.
The ruling is a setback for the business, which had hoped that the injunction would mean that cinemas
in a major market, one in close proximity to New York, could soon welcome patrons.

Most major exhibition chains have been closed since March, when coronavirus infections first began
sweeping across the country. That’s resulted in billions of dollars in lost revenues. Exhibitors are hopeful
that they can start screening films in the coming weeks, prove to customers that it’s safe to return to
cinemas, and encourage studios to begin offering new releases such as “Tenet” and “Mulan.”

That effort has been setback, however, by the rise in coronavirus cases in states such as Texas, Arizona,
and California. It is also complicated by the fact that New York City, the largest source of ticket sales, has
yet to set a date for reopening cinemas.

The plaintiffs filed a motion on Monday seeking a temporary restraining order and an injunction blocking
enforcement of Murphy’s order. In a three-page order on Tuesday, Martinotti indicated that he is keeping
tabs on other states’ restrictions as COVID-19 cases surge nationwide.

“It is noteworthy that, as Plaintiffs file this application, states that initially ordered the re-opening of indoor
movie theaters have once again ordered their closure in response to rising COVID-19 infection numbers,”
Martinotti wrote.

The judge directed the state to respond to the theaters’ request for an injunction by July 24.



< END >
Here in California, the governor has rolled back re-opening plans this week after a spike in
corona-cases, forcing many businesses that had re-opened to close again. I don't see movie
theaters coming back anytime soon.

In other news, The Telluride Film Festival (finally) announced its' cancellation today.
Quite frankly, this is no big surprise. It comes after weeks of announcements of
venues that would not be opening, and patrons and celebrity guests who announced
they would not be showing up to promote new films that may or may not get theatrically
released during a movie season that has already been all but eviscerated.
A blind man could have seen this coming.

[Frank Cox]

I suspect that the big movies won't be released until Los Angeles theatres are allowed to re-open. So we could be in for a long wait.

[Marcel Birgelen]

With respect to movie theatres, spacing and mask wearing when not actively eating/drinking should make it relatively low risk. Not "no" risk but low risk. If you are 70 years old or have some underlying condition that puts you at high risk, I wouldn't recommend going to a movie at this time.

The whole point of my statement was to indicate that the risk might be greater than previously anticipated. Where we previously asserted that you could only get infected by direct contact with droplets containing the virus, there are now strong indications that aerosol particles might be a bigger risk. The problem is that most non-medical masks don't really help against those aerosols, furthermore, your eyes are also potentially exposed and also form a low-barrier entry.

Unfortunately, this whole discussion has become so politically polarized, that science doesn't seem to matter anymore. I for once, will limit my exposure to others within the same enclosed room for as much as possible, until this thing has been ridden out one way or another or science has been more conclusive on the real dangers behind it. Although I can see the irony in this, as I won't be really supporting a big part of the industry I'm part of, my health, the health of co-workers and loved ones is more important to me.

Regardless of COVID, I'm shocked that simple and relatively inexpensive UV disinfecting lamps aren't standard equipment in the HVAC systems of public buildings. You'd think that would help reduce illness spread in general and COVID specifically.

We've looked at such solutions for our own HVAC system and there are already disinfecting solutions based on UV light for some HVAC systems. The problem though, is that there is very little science backing up how good this actually works. There are purposely-built disinfection lamps available, but they seem to need at least a few hours to actually disinfect a room. But right now, it's completely unknown how much UV radiation you need to effectively kill viruses in a channel of flowing air. Just putting a bunch of UV lamps in there will probably only give you a false sense of security.