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Not sure if this is the right place for this, but... Has anyone noticed that the level of Thor is significantly less than normal? We are a Drive-In, am not usually able to do screenings prior, especially on Thursday openings. Had a patron come in tonight and say that the movie is very quiet even with their car radio all the way up. We are using a JSD-60 in "drive-in mode" so the fader does nothing for the FM broadcast, and the FM wasn't changed at all. I increased the volume at the transmitter for Thor, thinking that maybe someone bumped it or something (no readout, its OLD), and had intermission come blasting on way too loud and had to turn it back to normal. I plan to call about it tomorrow but am wondering if anyone else had the problem. I tend to run things totally automated as we are "understaffed" and I'm usually too busy and forgetful to keep running to the booth to make adjustments. I may switch the JSD to regular mode and program a macro to increase the fader tomorrow, because, barring a known problem and new download, I'm not planning to go in there every night to change it. Thanks.
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Can't speak to drive ins ... but volume was normal for us .....
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The screening I went to wath too loud. By the time it ended, my ears were thor!
Last edited by Jim Cassedy; 07-08-2022, 06:33 PM.Comment
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Dustin... I can't be of much help with a drive-in but I do have some questions about your operation.
We get the "keys" early so we can screen the movie before we show it to the public. This allows us to talk to the community about the movie, let them know what might not be suitable for their children. It also makes sure that the presentation is correct and will work correctly. It allows me to adjust the lights, volume, trailers etc before we welcome customers.. We have had times when the keys did not work, I mistakenly added trailers in the wrong language, I adjust the volume, etc. As a drive-in, are you able to screen the movie and your overall presentation before you show it to the public?Comment
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Mark,
Screenings are hard for us. Between my work schedule (up at 7 for day job, off at 4, 30 min drive to theatre, then there till 1 or 2am, then 30 min drive home to sleep and do it all over again), keys that open at 0100 the morning of the show, and other various factors it’s just not feasible most of the time. I just have to double check the tags to make sure they’re all what we want, and that the keys are green, and go from there. It isn’t perfect, but it’s what we have. I will say that most of the problems we’ve had, both in digital as well as film, would not have been prevented with a screening. The ones that would have; missing or wrong light cue, ocap trailer instead of ccap, etc we’re probably only noticed by myself... my old band teacher had a saying... “if you screw up, just keep playing, the audience probably hasn’t heard this song before...” The audience doesn’t know if I wanted the lights on through the preroll or not, or perhaps we’re trying something new with or had a request for an ocap trailer. Even this audio level was only noticed by one patron, the rest probably just turned their volume up.
As far as what’s “suitable” for children, I’ve given up on that long ago. It’s a minefield that I’m not going to walk through. Movies have ratings, we advertise those ratings, if parents care they will look. Truth is, some parents are parents in name only, and simply don’t care...Comment
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If you did have your JSD in normal mode, then you could put automation cues into your playlist to wind the fader up for the movie, and then down again for the ads, trailers, and other stuff. It's not ideal, but it would avoid the need for manual fader changes throughout the show.
What 5.1 / 7.1 to 2.0 downmixer are you using? Or does the JSD do that inside the box (I'm not familiar with the drive-in mode)? Some downmixers can do weird things to the level, and I've had reports from a drive-in I service that the occasional movie is louder or quieter than it should be once it reaches customers' car radios, despite the fact that the same DCP playing in the indoor theater that is part of the same complex plays at the regular setting. There are also some drive-ins that use an AES to analog converter (e.g. the Doremi or USL one, or a DMA8+), and then send the output from that into a Mackie or Behringer-type PA mixing desk for downmixing to 2.0 for the FM transmitter. Then someone decides to mess with the channel sliders on the fly, and the result can be chaos.Comment
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Leo,
My understanding is that “drive-in” mode mixes the 5.1 to 2.0 Using percentages of each channel, say 70,70,70,30,30 for l,c,r,rs,ls. The left and right outputs are adjustable in software and the fader is used for a “monitor output” say field speakers or concession speakers, or whatever. All of that is in the jsd. Adjustment of the output for fm is done at the transmitter and then people adjust their cars to their liking.
I plan to switch to regular mode and then copy the settings to emulate drive-in mode. Just haven’t gotten to it yet, and I hate messing with things too close to showtime.
I’ve had volume level issues with dcp’s that I’ve made, and have gotten used to checking them both on final cut before I make the dcp and then on screen to make sure it’s ok.
I don’t see how anything other than the level that it was made at could effect anything. While the doremi has an option to increase the level itself, it has to be programmed with a macro, which it wasn’t, and it never seems to sound good when I’ve played with it. It’s almost like it’s overmodulating it or something.
We don’t use any additional mixers, if I need to make an announcement I switch channels on the jsd to mic. I about it at all costs during the show to avoid disruption, but some things are necessary: say a lost kid...
It’s a blessing and a curse with limited adjustment options. It’s good because that’s less that people can screw with, bad because when you need to change something it’s hard.Comment
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The JSD60 is VERY configurable (what the mix is, what channels track with a fader, what channels are fixed. If you read into the manual, as I recall, it lists (in a relatively confusing way) what parameters can be set and how but it isn't the most intuitive. Furthermore, if you save a copy of your settings...it is saving the mode and everything about those settings so if you switch modes and apply your settings again...bam, you are back where you were (which is what most people would want since you may be trying to recover from a failed unit so you'd want to put things EXACTLY like they were.
Harold might chime in here on just what all can be altered and how...I'm a bit distant from the last time I messed with one as we only had three of them in and are now down to one. If you go to the IP address of the JSD60 and add in a /ConfigFlash.html (like it has been discussed in another thread), you'll get to see ALL of the parameters. Search on Fader to find the fader_disable and that goofy number will tell you what channels (of all possible channels...not just the channels you use) are follow the fader or not (those that don't are are at the equivalent of 7.0):
Screen Shot 2022-07-09 at 3.35.15 PM.png
So, 768 in my example above. 768 is a decimal number...so convert that to binary and you get 1100000000. So, channels 9 and 10 (counting from 1) are disabled from the fader and those are...HI and VI...makes sense. At least, this is how I think it goes (again, Harold would be expert here). The UI shows HI/VI-N wrong as positions 9 and 10 since the UI counts from 0 (Lt...normally sent to transmitter Left). If you count from 0, then HI and VI are 8 and 9...if you count from 1 then they are 9 and 10.
Again, the ConfigFlash will also have the channel labels for you:
Screen Shot 2022-07-09 at 4.16.59 PM.png
So, if I wanted the fader to not control the feeds to the transmitter, and keep HI/VI also fixed...I'd want a word like 1100000011 (or, technically 01100000011 but who cares about LFE-2 in a DI?). So that would be 771 (decimal).
Please note, you have the ability to REALLY wack this system out, if you don't know what you are doing. Note, the other, unused Drive-In channels are still there, like Center and LFE (output channels). Presumably, nothing is connected to them as the JSD-60 only has but so many physical analog outputs. Going to the "Advanced" tab in the UI will allow one to create the mix/balance that is most suited to their needs for the outputs. I believe via the config file, one can even rename the channels to suit their needs too (including the meter designation)...but again...see the comment of messing up the unit.
Harold? Care to add anything?
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Dustin - maybe you can set up your own monitor radio somewehere, and mark a default setting on it's volume knob. Prerequsite, of course is to buy a radio receiver that actually does have a volume knob.
That way you could check anywhere on site wether your FM is working and is within a suitable volume range. I mean, who knows wether it was an isolated problem for this particular patron with his car stereo.Comment
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Steve, you pretty well described the JSD-60. Internally, everything is zero-based instead of one-based. You can see that in the channel_name list from ConfigFlash. Starting at zero, the typical channel order is L, R, C, LFE, Ls, Rs, Lrs, Rrs, HI, VI, LFE2. But you can use the outputs for whatever you want, as demonstrated by drive in mode. I tried to make everything generic so there was no special code. Any channel (except LFE) could do anything. On the JSD-100, we got into very complicated switching in the DSP for all the various combinations of audio and sources. On the JSD-60, we just put in the mixer which handles audio routing and mixing. Also, the JSD-60 does not really know about formats. Instead, it just has a bunch of parameters that are loaded when you push a button (or send a cue). We were playing with ideas for our next processor which would be even more generic. Each output could be steered to a desired signal chain. The configuration UI would be a web UI. The RTA or other analysis would be javascript in the web browser looking at a multi-microphone USB input. We made lots of notes and played with the javascript audio analysis. But we never got to a product.
I think that instead of making the JSD-60 fader control adjust the output when in drive in mode, I'd just adjust the transmitter audio input. It might be useful to put a compressor between the JSD-60 and the transmitter if the transmitter does not already have one in it. We considered putting a compressor in the JSD-60 but never did.
Harold
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Yeah, my drive-in customers had their desires as to what they wanted to track with the fader and what they did not and that is how I got involved on learning that the JSD60 could allow one to configure which ones tracked or not. That is also where I learned about saving a protection copy to use as a basis for the next configuration would save EVERYTHING...not just levels.
The JSD60 is still kicking at QSC. Though it has gone "EOL" I believe they did a final production run on them. Personally, I would have liked the JSD60 a LOT more if it had 2 more AES inputs (7.1 with HI and VI-N). It did/does pack a lot in a 1U device!Comment
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Yes, we discussed adding another AES/EBU input pair, but at that time, most theaters were 5.1, so they would not be used. The decision was to just have four AES/EBU pairs for 8 channels. This handles 5.1 and 7.1 auditoriums except for VI (if you generate HI).
Harold
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Very good point, especially if only one customer complained. All the drive-ins I regularly service (admittedly, only three sites) have a cheap FM radio in the booth, for, as you point out, verifying that the transmitter is actually working, and in one case to act as the monitor speaker.Originally posted by Carsten KurzComment
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Thanks all for the help. I'm going to work on it this week, just didn't get time over the weekend.
Our snack bar speakers are actually driven by a FM receiver for those exact reasons. To make sure were on the screen, the FM is working, and to dispel myths that it isn't. When a customer says that the radio isn't working I take them to one of our speakers and tell them that this is the same FM broadcast that they will be getting in their car, and that if it is working, then the problem is likely on their end and go out and help them. In this case, our speakers were actually low also. I tend to keep the volume inside the snack bar on the lower side, because as I increase the volume, people tend to talk louder and before you know it you can't hear yourself think inside.Comment
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So when I go to /ConfigFlash.html I get a 404 error. I am able to connect to the unit at the IP and get the main page, and can connect with the JSD software. Any thoughts?Comment
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