Renovated Restored Orinda Theatre Orinda CA Neon/ Black Lights Now Open

[Terry Monohan]

This past Saturday May 1 2021 many of my movie friends took the Bart train over to the classic restored large Orinda Theatre in Orinda CA to check out the new neon restoration inside and the LED black lights on the side florescent art murals. They have been closed for a year doing all the work. Thanks to Derek Zemark and his team at the Orinda for bringing this theatre up to 1941 shape!

Here are some photos and the article that was in this weeks local Orinda paper.

http://www.lamorindaweekly.com/archi...-April-30.html

Even the organist to the stars from the Fox Grand Lake Theatre Jump'n Jack came along with us but he left his cap pistol at home because of these trying times.


We all enjoyed the new cleaned up theatre and neon lights re done by the local Neon guru Greg King.

Watched the movie 'Nomadland' on the CinemaScope® screen with curtains that worked. The black light wall art sent of a glow but after years of nicotine and smoke grime they will need some expensive work in the future, at least they did shine a little under the new LED black lights . So nice to see the red and blue neon on the ceiling inside working with no hum.

They still need to tweak the surround speakers . They are placed way high up near the ceiling because of the art work on the walls. The surround sound needs the volume turned up as the sound just hits the top part roof of this large theatre. The Dolby® split surround wrap around logo was played and It had almost no volume in the audience and we sat mid way from the screen. I know every movie has different surround effects some have more then others but 'Nomadland' does have surround information and at the at the Orinda Theatre It did not come down into the seated area much I told the manager and asked him if he can look into It. . They are booked to play 'West Side Story' this Dec 2021 so hope they can get things sounding better. The stage speakers had good base.

If you are in the SF Bay Area go check out this classic deco theatre, you may not watch the movie much at imes and just look at the neon lights and black light art? Things you won't see in your local multiplex.

My new photos are up also today on Cinema Treasures also.

[Marcel Birgelen]

Looks like a gorgeous place to visit. Will put it on the list, if I ever manage to return to the Bay Area... Nice to see some people still spending the resources to keep those classic art deco theaters going.

Regarding the surround speakers: Maybe they're just mounted wrong and are not really pointed at the audience? In that case, you can increase the volume all you like, the result will still be lackluster. You may need special mounts to be able to mount them at a correct angle.

[Leo Enticknap]

As Marcel notes, reaiming those speakers will likely help a bit.

That being said, historic auditoria are somewhere between very difficult and impossible to tune to even in the ballpark of a good x-curve. They were designed for optimum acoustics based on an "audio system" consisting of 10-20 guys playing instruments in a pit under the screen, not 20-50 loudspeakers placed all around the room.

[Terry Monohan]

Thanks guys, the new lighting at the Orinda Theatre makes the ceiling part look very dark. Next time I go will look at the angle of the speakers. I think when they had the old orange and white side lights in a few years ago I remember looking up at the surround speakers and they seemed to me not tilting down and just flat across at the top?

I do think It is a volume issue. As a few years ago they had a older IA union projectionist in the booth in fact he was head of the projectionist union in the SF Bay Area. He was nice enough to let me tour the wide multi porthole Orinda booth and take a few photos. When I asked him why the movie I just saw had very little surround volume he looked at me very stern and said he had the surround channel mix turned down because he did not want people watching the movie and turn their heads during effects and look up! The same Disney movie I saw a week earlier in San Francisco at the Century 9 had a ton of split surround with a rich presence on the side and back walls of the cinema. Not too annoying as to interfere with the stage sound. This projectionist guy Is no longer working at the Orinda Theatre.

It's too bad in new movie theatre builds they can't hide the surround speakers someway on the side and back walls or ceilings with Dolby Atmos® set ups. Seems like ever since 4 ch mag surround sound 1953 movie theatres just hang the box clumsy box speakers on the side walls. I know any fabric or curtains will reduce the treble output but some cinemas could have hid them better I think.

The worst are some large old downtown theatres in he 1950's, they got sloppy and just hung the surround speaker wires speaker to speaker so the cable showed when the lights were turned up. I still come across some of these movie places still around today that have the wires drooping speaker to speaker. Looks so tacky like they were on a budget buying the speaker surround cable and did not want to hide the wires better.

Even in todays new or re model movie theatre builds the ceiling Dolby Atmos® roof speakers are put on the ceiling just hanging down either by themselves mounted or drilled into the ceiling or put on metal rack. the worst looking is the Dolby Atmos® placement at the Disney's El Capitain Theatre on Hollywood Blvd. Next time you go look up, almost like going to a rock show on the ceiling with metal rock show lights scaffolding holding up the ceiling effect speakers. Not a good place to sit under when the big LA earthquake hits someday! At least these Atmos® surround speakers are aimed down at the movie crowd below not like at the Orinda Theatre with very little amp volume.

[Leo Enticknap]

Burying surround speakers in the walls and ceiling is often done in high end residence installations. That adds to the installation cost, and has the added disadvantage that if a speaker blows or fails for some other reason, replacing it is that much more difficult and expensive, too, because you also have to cut away and then replace wall fabric. This is likely why it is hardly ever done in commercial movie theaters.

...he looked at me very stern and said he had the surround channel mix turned down because he did not want people watching the movie and turn their heads during effects and look up!

The stage channels should be set such that an array of calibration mics in the room "hears" them at 85dB when pink noise is played at reference level, and the surrounds at 82. After these levels have been set (which is done by a combination of preamp and power amp gain), they should not be touched again without calibration mics and a RTA to show you what is happening. If a projectionist turns down the gain for any given channel on the fly, (s)he has no way of getting it back within spec without doing a full retune. If the surround speakers were so badly positioned and aimed that customers really were looking up during loud scenes I can understand why he was tempted to do that, but once you start to mess with the gain and EQ settings that were determined by a formal tuning procedure using calibration mics and a RTA, you can get into serious trouble, very quickly.

I know that the El Cap was seismically reinforced at staggering expense when Atmos was put in. Towards the end of my time at the Egyptian it dawned on my bosses that if we didn't install it, a lot of our private rental business was potentially in danger. A little investigation revealed that the cost of doing that, including seismic reinforcement of the building to bring it up to the new codes, was in the "if you need to ask, you can't afford it" territory. Thankfully, Netflix has now written that check. The last I knew, the work was due to start around now.

[Marcel Birgelen]

That being said, historic auditoria are somewhere between very difficult and impossible to tune to even in the ballpark of a good x-curve. They were designed for optimum acoustics based on an "audio system" consisting of 10-20 guys playing instruments in a pit under the screen, not 20-50 loudspeakers placed all around the room.

I'd say this typical "old movie palace" acoustic adds a little bit of vintage authenticity to it... I wouldn't choose such an auditorium to watch a high-octane action flick with lots of surround sound. But you know, if I'd turn up in such a theater and the sound would be as crisp, dynamic and "dry" as in a modern high-end cinema, then I'd almost be disappointed.

Even in todays new or re model movie theatre builds the ceiling Dolby Atmos® roof speakers are put on the ceiling just hanging down either by themselves mounted or drilled into the ceiling or put on metal rack. the worst looking is the Dolby Atmos® placement at the Disney's El Capitain Theatre on Hollywood Blvd. Next time you go look up, almost like going to a rock show on the ceiling with metal rock show lights scaffolding holding up the ceiling effect speakers. Not a good place to sit under when the big LA earthquake hits someday! At least these Atmos® surround speakers are aimed down at the movie crowd below not like at the Orinda Theatre with very little amp volume.

I use to call those speakers snake oil speakers. They're not entirely ineffective, but regarding to the lengths you need to go to install them, they certainly have the least added value of all surround speakers. Since many people are becoming increasingly bad at resolving "height information", the higher the sound gets (as in elevation, not in pitch), you'd be better off with a second row of surround speakers, but unfortunately, Atmos currently doesn't support that configuration, at least not officially.

It's a pity Dolby dropped the ball on what Dolby Cinema was supposed to be. Their initial prototype installs did hide all speakers behind scrim walls, which I really considered to be a great design feature, despite the otherwise relatively bland look of the room itself. Still, the monolith in 2001 looks mighty impressive, the complete lack of any features made it stand out. Maybe it was an early Steve Jobs design.

[Frank Cox]

Many years ago I was talking to a guy who was just in the process of upgrading his sound system by adding surround speakers to his existing mono setup. He told me that the speakers were installed on the side walls and he had all kinds of people telling him how much better the new sound was. Before he actually got the speakers hooked up!

[Leo Enticknap]

I'd say this typical "old movie palace" acoustic adds a little bit of vintage authenticity to it... I wouldn't choose such an auditorium to watch a high-octane action flick with lots of surround sound. But you know, if I'd turn up in such a theater and the sound would be as crisp, dynamic and "dry" as in a modern high-end cinema, then I'd almost be disappointed.

Some consumer AV receivers have a "mono movie" audio preset that adds a tiny bit of echo and an Academy curve rolloff at the top and bottom, to simulate that very effect. I find that when you're listening to a 1930s or '40s movie in a 1930s or '40s theater, the acoustics enhance the sound, too - no optical "tape hiss" is audible, and the midtones sound fuller. But play a 1980s or later film in the same building, and the full x-curve range creates unwanted echos, compromised channel separation, and high and low frequencies that are frustratingly absent.

[Harold Hallikainen]

Thanks for posting about the Orinda Theater. I went to school in Orinda fifth grade through high school and saw several movies in that theater. Glad it is being maintained.

Harold

[Sam Chavez]

The Orinda surrounds are a whole topic in themselves and here goes. When the place was saved and restored perhaps 25 years ago, the docents would not agree to mar the walls and murals with speakers so eventually an agreement was struck but alas, far too few surrounds to cover a house this size and height. At some point before my time, a few more speakers were added in the back, more or less where one could reach them from a ladder.

Since BACP took over service there maybe 10 years ago, I've had the existing speakers repaired, including bringing in stage hands with scaffolding. 35 feet to the ceiling at the highest. At the moment the surrounds are turned off as there are a few rattling woofers and no real budget to replace theem properly. I'm hoping for a whole new system as there's not much point to repair inadequate and too few at that 8330's, only to have them blow all over again and where they can't be accessed. This would be a great venue for Meyer as they make awesome sounding and almost impossible to blow up, speakers.

Are you listening Derek?

[Leo Enticknap]

Sounds like a similar scenario to the Egyptian, the solution (during the late 1990s renovation) for which was the RSJ "building within a building" to avoid having to drill into the 1922 structure in order to hang speakers or acoustic panels.

There is going to be a conflict with the acoustics and aesthetics of a 1920s or '30s picture palace if you try to install regular 5.1 or 7.1 surround, let alone immersive audio. There are solutions, but at a pretty hefty price.

[Terry Monohan]

Thanks Sam for the information on the Orinda Theatre surround speakers. Do you think It would be possible while they try to get funding to replace the sound system or new surround speakers rather then have the effect speakers turned off completely with big movies about to open this summer do you think the owners can at least with your help put two speakers that work in the back corners on either side of the projection booth? The volume would have to turned up a little and the surround sound may not reach down front but at least we could hear some split surround information in this large old deco theatre in the mid section.

The more people that complain about the surround sound being turned off maybe they will take up my suggestion? Most cinema movie people could care less in this day and age about the sound. I do think with all the at home stereo surround systems now used when someone goes and pays to see a stereo mixed movie at the Orinda Theatre they may notice something is missing sound wise that they hear at home.

The Orinda Theatre with all the money folks that live in the area have with homes costing millions maybe they can collect a fund for a new sound system. Many of the locals have their own very expensive home cinemas set up way better then what ever they put in the Orinda.

The neon and black lights have been restored now lets get the surrounds working please. Keep us informed Sam If you can talk them into a temp fix in the back loge section . With all the projection port windows in the back wall a few hidden speaker cables hooked up for two stereo surround speakers right/left channel would be nice. Thanks for your help!

[Sam Chavez]

I am way tired of temp fixes. That's all that ever happens in most of these situations. They were doing it with in house labor to save money. Some of the kids doing the work have graduated law school. Ball is in Orinda's court here. Theatre's tend to be run by short attention span people, or to be kind, their attention is elsewhere. "There's never time to do it right but there's always time to do it over" is the operative phrase here.

Stand by.