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Author Topic: The 3,000 mile myth? (car oil change interval) Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 09-14-2013 01:58 PM                        I recently stumbled across this Wikipedia article, suggesting that changing the oil in your car every 3,000 miles is too frequent and unnecessary. We've got one coming up to 3k miles (the infamous '99 Civic) since the last oil change, and I was wondering about this. The Haynes manual says very clearly that the oil and filter should be replaced every 3k miles, and furthermore the 3,000 mile myth campaign site also notes that more frequent oil changes are a good idea if the car is used regularly in very hot or very cold weather, and/or on frequent short journeys from a cold start. This vehicle is used in temperatures of 100F/37C plus for around half the year (and even in the Southern Californian winters, daytime temperatures can get into the 80s), and for journeys of under five miles. Therefore, my inclination is to stick with 3k oil changes, especially as the car is in very good condition for its age and we'd like to keep it that way. That having been said, this does seem like a very short change interval. The last car I had in Britain (a 2001, mk. V Ford Fiesta), specified oil changes every 7.5k miles or six months, whichever came sooner, and I seem to remember that the last one I had before that (a 1997 Ford Mondeo) was around the same. Just wondered if anyone had any thoughts on this...  |  IP: Logged Jeff Taylor Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 601 From: Chatham, NJ/East Hampton, NY Registered: Apr 2000 posted 09-14-2013 02:17 PM                     My BMW's say forget about it until the readout calls for it (usually about 15,000 mi +/-). Admittedly they have a big oil sump and demand full synthetic oil, but I also can't help wondering if it's because they give you the oil changes free for 4 years. Saves them money! My Lincoln Aviator calls for it at 5,000 with regular oil. I can't remember the last car that recommended 3,000.  |  IP: Logged Rick Raskin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1100 From: Manassas Virginia Registered: Jan 2003 posted 09-14-2013 03:09 PM                     I usually change mine with the seasons (96 Jeep). My 2010 Toyota is still under warranty so I bring it in for interval service.  |  IP: Logged James Westbrook Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1133 From: Lubbock, Texas, Usa Registered: Mar 2006 posted 09-14-2013 03:25 PM                     3000 mile oil changes are deemed necessary in my part of the country due to the blowing dirt. And short trips with cold starts in my case as I live about 3 miles from work.  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 09-14-2013 03:25 PM                     Not having a car is great; I never have to think about such things. I just jump on the bus and let somebody else worry about the oil. Of course, if you don't happen to live in London, or New York, or a fairly small number of other cities, or you have children, this is probably not practical.  |  IP: Logged Pete Naples Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1565 From: Dunfermline, Scotland Registered: Feb 2001 posted 09-14-2013 03:41 PM                     The 3000 mile things really dates back to the days of 100% mineral oils, far less accurate AFM control (over fueling can lead to bore wash and increased carbon deposits, all of which contaminate the oil) and of course engines with much looser tolerances than modern designs, which did by their nature, burn a bit of oil. Nowadays oil is largely not oil at all, AFM is controlled by sophisticated closed loop systems and manufacturing tolerances are much much tighter. So in short, for prehistoric engines like the V8 in my Range Rover or the 1800cc in my MG B GT, 3000 miles using Castrol Q is spot on. For something like my daily driver Skoda Octavia, it's more like 24,000 using expensive synthetic lubricant. Let's not call the stuff oil, because it isn't.  |  IP: Logged Bajsic Bojan Expert Film Handler Posts: 190 From: Ljubljana, Si, Eu Registered: Aug 2008 posted 09-14-2013 03:55 PM                     +1 have not had a car in the last 12 years running less than 10000 miles without 'oil' and filter change.  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 09-14-2013 06:32 PM                        I usually change at 3000 the first time. 4000 the second time and then work up to 7000. Most metal is made during the first few hundred miles and SOME companies use a lower grade of oil so early replacement makes sense the first time. Louis  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 09-14-2013 07:39 PM                        Many thanks folks. quote: Jeff Taylor My BMW's say forget about it until the readout calls for it (usually about 15,000 mi +/-). Same thing with Olivia's new car (a 2012 Civic): it's got a photoelectric sensor in the oil path that actually measures how opaque the oil is. Once it gets black beyond a certain point, 'Change me, please' appears on the dashboard display. Far too high tech for my liking! quote: James Westbrook 3000 mile oil changes are deemed necessary in my part of the country due to the blowing dirt. And short trips with cold starts in my case as I live about 3 miles from work. I'm leaning the same way, because California's Inland Empire is also very hot and dry; and furthermore, being in a valley that has lots of heavy industry in it, the air quality is said to be among the worst in the country (on some days you can barely see the San Bernardino Mountains, the foothills of which are only 7-8 miles away, for the smog). Judging by how often we need to change the filter in the house's air conditioning unit (they're supposed to last three months, but here they get clogged enough to have a noticeable effect on air flow through the grilles after only 5-6 weeks), I can easily believe that. The Haynes manual says do it every 3k, though they do have a reputation for overly cautious recommendations and I'd be interested to know what Honda actually recommends for that model (can't find the info online and the documentation that came with the car is long since lost). Anyway, I think what I'm going to do is to change it at the 3k mark this time, and look at what comes out of the oil pan. If it's a gloopy sludge like the stuff in which Charles Vanel drowned in The Wages of Fear, I'll stick at 3k intervals, but if the viscosity doesn't seem much worse than when it went in, I'll think about stretching the interval next time.  |  IP: Logged Buck Wilson Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 894 From: St. Joseph MO, USA Registered: Sep 2010 posted 09-14-2013 11:56 PM                     3k is a very safe interval. If I were you in those conditions, I'd do 3k. That said, both oil and engines have come A LONGGGGGGGG way. Changes aren't needed nearly that often for the majority of folks. Most new cars are coming out with some type of monitoring system and typically those systems bring the cars anywhere from 5,000-12,000 miles on a change. I personally run 5,000 mile changes on the Wal-Mart house brand SynTech synthetic oil, and I can tell you right now it is overly cautious of me to do so, it could go much longer than that in both my cars. I just like the ease of 5k changes(260k, 265k, 270k, etc) and peace of mind it offers. Not to mention, it only amounts to like $23 every 6 months so that's what I'm happy with.  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 09-15-2013 11:26 AM                     As Pete says, things have changed and now many companies ask you to change the oil around 15/17.000 miles. VW have what they call "long life" oil. Costs more, but you are supposed to change it every 17k. There is only something that puzzles me. A friend of mine has a VW which is under a service plan. VW pay for the service (up to 60k I think) and for breakdowns. Curiously, they use longlife oil BUT they require you to service the car every 10k miles! Sounds like "we know something you don't" to me! The other point is that VW charge you about 300 quid for a standard service (oil and filter), hence you're not really pushed into replacing the oil more often.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 09-15-2013 12:09 PM                        quote: Marco Giustini The other point is that VW charge you about 300 quid for a standard service (oil and filter)... Yikes! Even the most expensive, fully synthetic, top of the range "oil" I've ever seen on the shelf at Halfords (UK) or O'Reilly's (US) is only about £50 for a bottle (typically one US gallon or sold in 4.5 litre bottles in Britain). I know that main dealers are notorious for applying the BOHICA principle to their customers when it comes to servicing costs, and that the only reason you'd get your car serviced at one is if you have to in order to keep a warranty valid: but even so VW must be making something like a 500% margin on every oil and filter change they do. Nice work if you can get it!  |  IP: Logged Mitchell Dvoskin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1869 From: West Milford, NJ, USA Registered: Jan 2001 posted 09-15-2013 12:17 PM                     My girlfriend gave me her old 2003 Toyota Corolla a few years ago with around 300K miles on it. She religiously changed the oil every 3K miles from when it was new. It now has around 350K miles on it and still running strong. Over it's life, it has gone though 3 catalytic converters, and one starter. That's it, aside from normal consumables like tires and oil. Prior to her giving me the car I would change the oil every 15K miles or so in my cars, but I can't argue with success, so I am a convert to the 3K method.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 09-15-2013 12:50 PM                     You forgot to address one critical component, her car was a Toyota. What was yours that you changed the oil in every 15K miles?  |  IP: Logged Sam Graham AKA: "The Evil Sam Graham". Wackiness ensues. Posts: 1431 From: Waukee, IA Registered: Dec 2004 posted 09-15-2013 07:10 PM                        I use Mobil 1 Synthetic 0w30 in my Rogue routinely changed every 10,000 miles. I do my own oil changes, about $30 total cost for oil and (Bosch) filter. 220,000 miles of mostly Midwest highway driving and runs like new. No leaks and burns less than a half quart between changes.  |  IP: Logged

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