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Author Topic: Could this vintage Century Booth Run? Steven J Hart Master Film Handler Posts: 282 From: WALES, ND, USA Registered: Mar 2004 posted 08-13-2006 09:11 AM                        I was recently asked to come to a neighboring town's long abandoned theater to see if the new owners could run film on the existing equipment. The owners don't want to stick a bunch of money in the booth because they feel that digital cinema will make it obsolete in the near future. The theater has been closed since about 1980. I was suprised to find that the booth was all original and unchanged (as far as I can tell!) since the theater was built in the mid 1940's. The pair of Century C/R3's are in running order, but the sound heads still house photo-electric cells. Lenses are B&L, except for the anamorphic adapters which are some kind of 20 lb coffin-like jobs that hang from a bracket bolted to the front of the projector head. The changeover system still works. One of the Strong lamphouses will strike an arc, but light is very poor (reflectors have cracks and are blackened) The Sil tube rectifier does not light up on lamphouse number 2 when trying to strike an arc. Sound system is all Vintage Century with an Altec A-5 behind the screen. The amplifier and exciter lamp power supply seem to work, but there is a 60 hz hum in the system. To run new titles, red light readers would have to be installed, and the tube power amp should probably be replaced with any newer mono sound system. I think the scope lenses would have to be replaced, they're all rusty with the prismatic elements cloudy (the roof leaked over their storage area). What do you all think about the lamphouses? Could they be made to work? Are reflectors available? Can those sil-tube rectifiers still be serviced? Would it be better to just find a used xenon lamphouse and platter? The owners plan to run current titles four nights a week.  |  IP: Logged Tom Sauter Expert Film Handler Posts: 163 From: Buffalo, NY, USA Registered: Sep 2000 posted 08-13-2006 11:05 AM                        Frozen in time! That's really a neat find. I'd be tempted to resurrect all of the existing equipment, but for a house running 4 nights a week its just not worth the hassle. A good mono system with an infrared reader and a new amp would be a good start, and the altec A5 is probably pretty rotted. I wouldn't fool around with those lamphouses, its more trouble than its worth. A nice super-lumex with a new power supply would do the trick. All that's left is a good used platter (if one will fit in that booth) and keep the projector that's worst for the wear for parts. Replace the motor drive belt, clean out the projector gearbox and re-lube it, then clean out the intermittent and fill it with fresh oil. Not that you're in a major state of disrepair... but the second one of those sil tubes goes you're done for!  |  IP: Logged Jon Miller Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 973 From: San Diego, CA, USA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 08-13-2006 12:41 PM                     Those aren't Sil-Tubes in the rectifier, but old-fashioned Tungar bulbs. Good luck trying to find replacements for those as they have been out of production for many decades. Tungar bulbs were considerably less efficient than silicon diodes, which were the "heart" of a Sil-Tube retrofit. A thread from two years ago entitled Tungar tubes has more on Tungar bulbs vs. Sil-Tubes as well as pictures and description of a DIY solid-state replacement I made.  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 08-13-2006 01:06 PM                        In a word, Yes. You could run that booth. There are a lot of "IFs", though, and your owner needs to be ready to spend some money, regardless. That same package was installed in my home-town theatre, back in 1947. One of the projectors is still running (the other was retired when the theatre automated). Both put out a rock-solid image, nearly 60 years after they were made. To start with though, you probably won't get picture or sound comparable to anything around you without the owner putting some serious money in there. Except for the projector head (assuming it's OK), everything else will probably need repairs, upgrades or outright replacement. A few, of the top of my head: The sound heads have their own preamplifiers in them. Filament, plate and PE cell bias voltages come from the main amplifier. Our booth did not have the individual volume controls on the sound heads, as are shown in your picture. We had a master fader instead. With all that in mind, you'll need to decide whether to keep the old tube pre-amps when you pull out the photoelectric cells. The old amplifier expects line levels at 600 ohms. It only has a preamp for the turntable. You'll have to keep the tube pre's, or get solid state ones if you plan on keeping the main amp. Of course, you wouldn't need a line amp if you were to replace the main with a sound processor and new amp... or is the owner planning to run today's analog sound tracks with no noise reduction? If the owner insists on keeping the amplifier, plan on re-capping it. That hum was a common problem, and one we had when we finally retired ours. Otherwise, it was good equipment. The lenses are marginal, compared to what you can get out of even slightly newer ones. The "coffin" anamorphic is probably a "Super Panatar"... decent for its time, but a real light hog. Even a recent anamorphic adapter will give you better light and sharper images. But... you can use it if you like. The lamphouses, at minimum, look like they'll need a serious cleaning. Reflectors and carbons, assuming you can get decent ones, will be needed ($$$). Check the commutator, brushes & bushings on the feed motor. The slider rails need to move freely. If it's not running properly, you'll have problems keeping a stable light on the screen. The system exhausts by convection... meaning the stacks are probably well-coated. Get some breathing masks... you'll probably need to clean out the whole system. The tubes in the power supplies are not "Sil Tubes", though they should be. They're probably "Tungar" tubes... which was original stock for those things. You'll probably need to convert to silicon diodes, as finding good Tungars will probably be unlikely by now. Assuming the gears are covered with grease... common, it seems, the projector head itself might be the only thing in there that's almost ready to go. Some cleaning, new grease & oil could be about all you need. Check the sprockets for wear & don't forget that those old "C" models have bushings and oil cups that need attention now and then. In the end, your owner would probably SAVE money by buying a sound processor, an amplifier, and a xenon lamphouse/power supply... even some decent lenses. All of that stuff is readily available on the used market, and would probably give you a better end result than what you'd get after the time and expense from rebuilding what's in there. Remember that there's not much in there that's currently supported. You could get it all working, but if anything blows, it's probably toast. It definitely won't be a "plug and play" installation... you're going to need a real projectionist in that booth.  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 08-13-2006 02:37 PM                       What Jack said. Particularly the last two paragraphs. Cool find, though. You just took me back to my pre-teen years. I love it! That would be a switch, though.. going from carbon arc straight to DC!  |  IP: Logged Phil Hill I love my cootie bug Posts: 7595 From: Hollywood, CA USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 08-13-2006 03:07 PM                  quote: Jon Miller ...Tungar bulbs vs. Sil-Tubes as well as pictures and description of a DIY solid-state replacement I made. Great work, Jon! As far as that booth: A line from "Mr. Blandings Builds His Dream House" seems to fit... "Tear it down!" And replace it with modern (used/rebuilt) equipment from a reputable dealer. Using a single projector and a platter, you wouldn't need a "real" projectionist... just a HS kid that calls himself one. Less costly and more reliable in the long (and short) run.  |  IP: Logged Steven J Hart Master Film Handler Posts: 282 From: WALES, ND, USA Registered: Mar 2004 posted 08-13-2006 03:11 PM                        Jack, Great Advice. I run the Century C/R3 combo in my own theater (you can see pictures of our setup in the picture warehouse filed under "singles..." its the third Roxy listed) and the image is great, although my C is much newer with the big lens barrel and curved gate. We gutted all the electronics out of the R3 and replaced it with a Kellmar reverse scan reader. Its been up and running with the reverse scan conversion since 1998 and the our tech checks the A chain alignment yearly, but has never had to make an adjustment. We just use the analog sound for a few trailers and as a backup for our DTS, but the analog sound is very good. If the owner of this theater wants to reliably show a good presentation, I think they will have to invest in a sound system, Platter, Lamphouse and lenses. Finding a projectionist who would be willing to put the effort into putting on a good presentation with this ancient carbon-arc booth will be a tougher task than getting the equipment up and running.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 08-13-2006 04:38 PM                     I'm in the replace the lamphouses and lenses crowd. But I don't (ever) go for the platter. Add two more A-5s for behind the screen and seriously consider surrounds and subwoofers. Even in the DCinema era, the sound is going to need to be replaced so why not start now...it is money well spent.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-13-2006 07:26 PM                     The entire booth could be restored... and I mean actually restored! But I'm partially with Steve and partially with Phil on this one and its from an operational practicality standpoint. Lamphouse and lenses and preferably a clean used AW-3 platter since the new ones are getting crappier by the day. Perhaps also replacing the screen depending on its age and actual faded color.... its probably not still white! Sound can come later on if the tube system can be easily gotten to work but a pair of red reverse scan readers will be needed for analog play back at the least... These readers work just fine on tube systems. No JAX Lights please ! Sound upgrades can then be scheduled as funds permit but will still need to be done sooner than later. If the booth only has single phase as some of these old booths do then a Strong Switcher and good 2KW lamphouse will work well on 220 volt single phase to replace those Arcs. The second machine can be used for spares to keep operating costs down. The owners are worried about fixing this equipment and what it might cost but D-Cinema would cost them about 115 grand today! It ain't going to get cheaper for D-Cinema either. Going right to D-Cinema would be a good consideration now that almost all films are avaialble digitally. Mark  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 08-13-2006 08:25 PM                        Sorry guys, but as much as this one "takes me back." The goal here is to produce some revenue so this guy can save up for D Cine. Contact your dealer/serviceman and replace/overhaul as required so that a decent reliable operation is assured. Obsolete must go; overhaul the rest off site. There must be a reliability comfort level for all concerned. Otherwise there should be no attempt at a commerciaL operation. Louis  |  IP: Logged Steven J Hart Master Film Handler Posts: 282 From: WALES, ND, USA Registered: Mar 2004 posted 08-13-2006 09:46 PM                        quote: Perhaps also replacing the screen depending on its age and actual faded color.... its probably not still white! I think screen replacement is a given quote: Mark Gulbrandsen The owners are worried about fixing this equipment and what it might cost but D-Cinema would cost them about 115 grand today! It ain't going to get cheaper for D-Cinema either. Going right to D-Cinema would be a good consideration now that almost all films are avaialble digitally. If it's not gonna get any cheaper, most small Mom and Pop singles, twins etc won't be getting DC. Those of us in that category are going to be forced to close our doors once film prints are no longer available if outside (as in Studio) financing is not available for the installation of the equipment. I think I'd have a hard time convincing my local bank to write up loan papers for 100,000 plus after he takes a look at my income statement. Mark, have you actually installed D Cinema in any small-town type theaters? This might be a topic for another thread, but how does the Digital print actually get to the theater? Is there a standard shared among all the studios?  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-13-2006 11:24 PM                     quote: Steven J Hart Mark, have you actually installed D Cinema in any small-town type theaters? Later this year comming up for Christmas I do. Keep in mind that D-Cinema equipment is never going to be mass produced in terms that producing millions of units that will lower its price like mass produced teleision sets are. It will always remain a low production number item. They have at least 5 years left on the film equipment, possibly more. Starting the detective work now on how to buy it for a small market makes sense so they will have everything in place when the time comes. Mark  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 08-14-2006 01:42 AM                        I'm with Steve on questioning the need for a platter. Unless the cost of bringing both projectors into reliable serviceability is prohibitively higher than overhauling one and installing a platter (which, I guess, if new lamphouses, rectifiers and lenses are needed, it could be), what's the point? Given that this is a single screen house the projectionist isn't going to be needed anywhere else during the show, so you'd only be creating extra work taking down prints at the end of their run.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 08-14-2006 03:41 AM                     If a person was going to do something with this place, a good deal of money is going to be in effect. Looking at the size of the auditorium and the size of the screen, plus the damage at the front section, I would say,(if this is going to remain a single screen) is the build a new wall straight across where the back side walls beging to arc in towards the stage. This would allow a much larger screen to be installed - let along new sound system for multi-channel digital sound. Then remove the seats and regauge them for a wider seat distance. Also, this place, should also be run as a discount, or maybe a sub-run so that the grosses from the films aren't killing the owners by paying so much to the film companies and allowing continual profits to emerge from the boxoffice .. along with snakbar sales.. Tons of work to do as for right now, but a good possibility that, in the long run, could be a profitable venue. But, the risk is what stares us in the face - either grow or bust. -Monte  |  IP: Logged Paul Gordon Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 580 From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Registered: Aug 2005 posted 08-15-2006 07:34 AM                        Run the place as a change over booth. Buy a used Cp55 w/ a SRA5 (w/ CAT 280's), buy newish speakers, and used QSC amps, install redlight readers, and buy new lenses, also used strong or Xenex lamphouses would do the trick. You can make a screen using drywall that is larger and curved a little. For $5000.00-$7000.00 you could get this booth up and running with good analog sound and a nice picture.  |  IP: Logged

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