Are deeply curved LED screens the way to the future for cinema?

[Bobby Henderson]

With the bolded do you mean the sphere itself or the screen inside? When I was in Vegas in March construction was well underway.

The MSG Sphere structure is "topped off". The process to install more than 1 million LED panels and 164,000 speakers is supposed to start this summer and take nearly a year to complete. That goes along with all the other stuff being installed inside and outside. The LED system on the exterior of the sphere is also a very elaborate undertaking.

The cost of the MSG Sphere is currently at $1.9 billion, but the final cost could end up being substantially higher due to various supply chain issues and inflation.

I really would like to check out the MSG Sphere during a future visit to Las Vegas. But I'm hoping the ticket prices for various shows aren't priced out of sight -like going to see an NFL game in a billion dollar stadium. The MSG Sphere is a very expensive, almost one of a kind venue. A second MSG Sphere is proposed to be built in the Stratford area of London. Even if Madison Square Garden Entertainment is wildly successful with both the Las Vegas and London installations I wouldn't expect very many other MSG Sphere venues to be built. Only the biggest, most "cosmopolitan" metros would be viable as possible locations.

I'm sure MSG Entertainment could make some deals to have events like movie world premiere events or special movie screenings in the MSG Sphere. But this kind of venue is just too costly to have any chance at being deployed in any kind of mainstream manner for general purpose movie going. For now, people involved in developing large scale LED displays have to figure out how to make LED work economically for a normal movie theater.

[Sam Chavez]

I'm not sure the Coronet ever was converted to D150. I worked around that place technically for years and actually stripped it when it closed. Are we sure we're not talking about the UA Alexandria up the street? That was more the UA flagship back in those days.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

The back end of River Oaks in Calumet City. IL was curved to conform with the space behind the screen. I wonder if that affected the sound? A curved wall generally tends to focus the sound, but I have no idea what the focal point would have been in relation to the auditorium. This theater also had an installation of DP-75's. Since by the time it was built, the DP-70 was out of production.

Photo from Cinema Treasures and was uploaded by Dallas Theaters

[Lyle Romer]

I have high hopes for the MSG Sphere, if it will eventually be built... a gigantic, direct-view dome screen would be more than awesome to experience.

With the bolded do you mean the sphere itself or the screen inside? When I was in Vegas in March construction was well underway.

[Marcel Birgelen]

Say what you goys will about IMAX dome/OMNIMAX, I always thought it was f'kn awesome.

For me, that system had way to many problems to be awesome, unfortunately.

First of all, it was often used for the wrong content, stuff that had tons of close-ups doesn't work well in IMAX generally, but is just troublesome in IMAX dome/OMNIMAX. But one of the most bothersome things for me has always been the aluminium screen that is clearly visible in bright scenes and bright spots. The visibility of those seams and the "fabric" of the screen really breaks the fourth wall for me.

Also, despite those extremely high-powered Xenon lamps used in the system, the brightness of the dome screen always somewhat underwhelmed me.

I have high hopes for the MSG Sphere, if it will eventually be built... a gigantic, direct-view dome screen would be more than awesome to experience.

[Allan Young]

As I've been in the projection biz since the early 1970's, my aging memory cells occasionally mix up booths
& equipment configurations from my past. I knew the CORONET in San Francisco definitely had been
equipped for TODD-AO, as there were still some assorted remnants of the installation on premisis right up
till the time UA closed the theater. I thought perhaps my comment about the Coronet being equipped for
D-150 might have been a victim of just an imagined recollection- but less than 5min of Google-ing turned
up an article (mentioning the Syosset) and an actual photo of the CORONET auditorium "after conversion
to D-150".

Yes, the list is definitely incomplete - the Coliseum in London had a D-150 screen and isn't listed. To be fair to the authors, it's from a 1995 newsletter so they wouldn't have been able to Google anything at the time!

[Jim Cassedy]

Here's a list of Dimension 150 theaters from ThomasHauerslev's site (although incomplete, as it doesn't
mention the Coronet in SF): https://www.in70mm.com/newsletter/19...emas/index.htm

As I've been in the projection biz since the early 1970's, my aging memory cells occasionally mix up booths
& equipment configurations from my past. I knew the CORONET in San Francisco definitely had been
equipped for TODD-AO, as there were still some assorted remnants of the installation on premisis right up
till the time UA closed the theater. I thought perhaps my comment about the Coronet being equipped for
D-150 might have been a victim of just an imagined recollection- but less than 5min of Google-ing turned
up an article (mentioning the Syosset) and an actual photo of the CORONET auditorium "after conversion
to D-150". You can see the photo & the quoted caption on the AmericanWidescreenMuseum website here:
http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/widescreen/wingto14.htm

"The Coronet Theatre in San Francisco, CA. Showing the theatre after conversion
to D-150 presentation." (Photo & caption ©️ Martin Hart, www. widscreenmuseum.com )
CoronetCurvedScrn.jpg

[Van Dalton]

AS I recall, Todd had the same specification for Todd-AO that Cinerama had: the projectors had to be as close to center axis as possible, which is why there are many mid-century theaters that saw a shift to rear-of-the-mezzanine booths. Where it was NOT possible, you could obtain a so-called "rectified" print of the picture (like Oklahoma!) that in a half-assed way tried to correct for the keystoning on a curved screen, but that was considered sub-optimal.

Slightly OT, but I believe IMAX had such a kit as well to allow flat 15/70 prints to display correctly in dome theatres, a workaround for the eventual lack of "fisheye" prints available by the late 1990s. Subpar compared to running a print properly formatted for domes, but far preferrable to the alternative of running a flat print without it.

I seem to remember OMSI having that system around the mid 2000s when I was a broke college student slowly bankrupting myself spending weekends in that place. In the '90s they ran a pre-show slide presentation, without corrective optics, and the bowtie distortion was abominable!

Say what you goys will about IMAX dome/OMNIMAX, I always thought it was f'kn awesome.

[Allan Young]

Are there any D-150 screens still in operation?

Here's a list of Dimension 150 theaters from ThomasHauerslev's site (although incomplete, as it doesn't mention the Coronet in SF): https://www.in70mm.com/newsletter/19...emas/index.htm

The two European installations (London and Copenhagen) are long gone.

[Jim Cassedy]

UA Theatres had a Dimension 150 theatre out in Syosset NY.

Thanks for the memories, Frank! I pulled a couple of "fill-in" shifts at the UA Syossett back in the early
1970's before The Union "permanently" assigned to my own theater. It was definitely a "Class-A" house,
and one of the places that UA kept up nicely- - at least in part due to the fact you mentioned about UA's
Eastern HQ offices being located not too far away. Most of the big movies back around that time had
their NY premier runs on Broadway in NY City, and at The Syossett on Long Island. I'm pretty sure
I recall running "Fiddler On The Roof" during it's exclusive Long Island engagement there.

In those pre- Dolby days, they had one of the better engineered (and maintained!) sound systems. It
was all 35 and 70mm mag sound back then. There were connections to hook up separate mag sync
sound followers but I'm not aware of it ever being done. For some of those big engagements, at least
during the initial opening weeks, they kept both 70 & 35mm prints in the 3 projector booth.
( I think the 3rd projector was 35mm only- - but I might be confusing that booth with another large
theater I sometimes worked at )

I never got to run an actual D-150 print there, although I do recall 'playing around" with the big lenses.
- - and when I worked there they still had those huge water-cooled 150amp Ashcraft carbon arc lamps
that used rotating carbons almost as thick as my thumb which and which put out just slightly less light
than the Sun.

My friend & Union Brother Norman S. worked the Syosset booth for several years, and I'd often
drop in to see him and hang around & 'tech-chat' sometimes. I'm pretty sure it was at the the Syosset
that I first saw (and later operated) my first Dolby equipment. ( CP-200 ) The original audio install was
all Altec/Ampex optical & magnetic (mostly vaccuum tube) pre-amps & amp racks. - If my memory is
correct, the Dolbystuff was installed for STAR WARS. I recall driving all the way out there just to see
it. (The Dolby equipment- - not the movie! I was playing it somewhere else on a big screen, but in
MONO. The theater I was at had been equipped for 35mag sound, so a lot of the 'basic' audio
wiring was in place, but UA & Dolby couldn't get the stereostuff installed before S-Wars opening date)

I also got to pull a couple of shifts at THE CORONET here in SF, which was also equipped for
D-150. I was given some keys & got to go on a 'scavenger hunt' inside before they tore it down
in the mid 2000's. i did pick up a truckload of assorted equipment & artifacts, but unfortunately,
the D-150 lenses were long gone by then. Oh Well....


BONUS CLIPPING: For Many Years, The Syosset D-150 Was Long
Island's "UA Flagship" Theater - - & They Liked To Show It Off
Syosset10281963.jpg
(Source: BOX OFFICE Magazine, Oct 28th, 1963)

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

Not sure on the first question.. but possibly in Europe Somewhere, and no on the second one. The D-150 lens is like any scope lens. The back is (Usually a 4" O.D. Kolmorgen and the front is the actual D-150 corrective part. I actually tried this lens I have here on a flat 70mm screen once... The back up lens was so long and the image on the screen so small it was difficult to tell exactly what it did to the image. The picture is of my collection of attachments and complete lenses.

[Geoff Jones]

Are there any D-150 screens still in operation? Can those "corrective lenses" be used with digital projectors?

[Frank Angel]

I'll bet, given what we know about Mr. Exhibitor, and given that there were only two films specifically shot for the D-150 system, that those screens which cost a hefty truck load of $$$, were used full sized for lots of titles other than THE BIBLE and PATTON. I can't imagine after D-150 was out of the picture (npi), that most exhibitors running D-150 theatre were any to happy only using 2/3rd of their pricey D-150 screen, especially since they had the Curvelux lens which allowed any format to be presented on the full curved screen. It's reminiscent of when, as soon as the CinemaScope width screen was installed, there wasn't an exhibitor anywhere who was going to show Academy ratio titles after he'd bought and installed a "scope width screen. There were plenty of Academy titles at that time that were already in the can, but no matter, plates were going to be filed and down-sized focal length lenses were going to be install to make that image WIDER come hell or high water, regardless of how it was shot. Mr. Exhibitor sez: "We don't need no stinkin foreheads and chins!" Even the studios realized that once an audience saw the curtains open and open and open wide for THE ROBE, no way were they going to be happy seeing a 1.37:1 image. G. Stevens shot SHANE in Academy, but Paramount released it hardmatted at 1.66:1; I'd love to know how many theatres ran it at 1.85:1!

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

In Canada and the USA, the lenses stayed at the theater all the time. As it is, D-150 only produced two films in the format and they disappeared into United Artists Theaters, as they had the most D-150 locations. So all of the locations ended up running all 70mm stuff on the full D-150 screen. I would assume a similar thing happened in Europe.

[Allan Young]

UA D150.jpg

You can just about make out the text in the diagram at the top. The middle-sized screen area was for 70mm and the smallest for 35mm 'scope. When D-150 was introduced, the idea was that only films produced in D-150 would take advantage of the full screen area. To that end, the projection lens was only supplied (free of charge) to a D-150 house for the duration of a D-150 film's run.

Presumably the fact that only two features were produced in D-150 (the final one was Patton in 1970) meant that this requirement was later dropped. Either that or in 1978 the Odeon Marble Arch in London broke the rules...

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