Disney bootlegs

[Randy Stankey]

What about the opening scene of “The Triplets of Belleville?”

That movie hits all the stereotypes, including fat people.

Then, there is the Josephine Baker character. In Paris, at the time, Baker was a big hit because the French thought Black people were exotic.

Whether or not people thought of it as racist, it was…. Only a “kinder and gentler” form of racism.

When I first saw it, I thought, “OMFG! They’re doing the Josephine Baker stereotype!”

But virtually nobody, except for a few of the older people understood what it was.

Who was Josephine Baker?

[Leo Enticknap]

Positively woke compared to Scrub Me Mama With a Boogie Beat (which I'm not going to look for or post a link to, because it was acknowledged as being off-the-scale bad by many at the time of its release, and I can't find anything redemptive in it whatsoever - I wouldn't want it censored, but neither would I want to encourage viewings of it)!

The Isle of Pingo Pongo is another interesting one. Again, it's been condemned as racist poison, but once again, rewards a second look. It seems to me to be a critique of Martin and Osa Johnson's exploration (in reality, exploitation) "documentaries," and to a lesser extent Cooper and Schoedsack. The tourists have to be transported on a state-of-the-art western cruise ship, and the natives perform modern (i.e. 1930s) Vaudeville-style numbers, because, presumably, they figure that this is all the American tourists will tolerate. And all the Elmer Fudd prototype wants to do is shoot anything and everything.

[Steve Guttag]

I had not seen Jungle Jitters before now (followed the link). Setting aside the stereotypes (which are doozies in a couple of places and just plain strange in others), it isn't a very good cartoon on its own. The story is weak, the voices of the non-blacks (I believe only non-black characters talk...I've only seen it once, and that was more than enough) were pretty bad. While I have no problem with the cartoon being restored for its historical perspective and as a teachable moment, it is still like eating sawdust to watch (or listen) to it.

[Mark Ogden]

Was Coal Black and De Sebbin Dwarfs misunderstood? Yes it was.

But if you are going to go into the Warner Bros. "Censored Eleven" territory, you will also run into the vile and disgusting Jungle Jitters, a film that in NO WAY survives the "well . . . people were less touchy about things back then" test, because it was a racist piece of shit back at the time of its initial release as well.

Sorry, but Coal Black doesn't excuse this one.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB7nSYFpWVo

[Randy Stankey]

Take the crows in the movie Dumbo.

None of their jokes in the song, “When I See an Elephant Fly,” would have worked if they weren’t “Black.”

Did you ever see an elephant fly
Well I seen a horse fly
I seen a dragon fly
I seen a house fly

I seen all that too
I seen a peanut stand
And heard a rubber band
I seen a needle that winked its eye…

[Leo Enticknap]

Disney has a certain way of "fluffing up" stories. I think that their sense of "fluff," combined with their "white bread" style of cultural insensitivity, ruined what could have been a good movie.

And the ultimate critique of that, IMHO, is Coal Black and de Sebben Dwarfs. For decades, it's been condemned as a posionously racist statement. But while working at the Egyptian I met someone who had been a close friend of Bob Clampett, who told me that the one of his biggest regrets was the extent to which the cartoon had been misunderstood. Its object was to use the African-American popular culture of the day (zoot suits, guns, explicit reference to sex, jazz music, etc.) to make fun of Disney "white bread" sentimentality. Snow White = shy, retiring, naive, etc. vs Coal Black = the exact opposite in every way. Some of the leading African-American entertainers of the day (most notably Vivian Dandridge) collaborated with Clampett and Schlesinger on the cartoon: they wouldn't have done if they felt that it denigrated their own ethnicity. This movie was Warner Bros. taking a swipe at one of their rival studios in an industry in-joke, not a work of racist propaganda, and no-one accused it of being the latter until at least two decades later.

[Marcel Birgelen]

I think the Brer Rabbit theming is going to remain in the international parks. The whole change is stupid. Before the whole "controversy" was publicized, I doubt you could find 1 in 100,000 visitors to a Disney Park that associated the ride with anything remotely racist. It would probably be a low percentage who could even tell you what movie the ride was based on.

There is only one other park besides Disneyland and the Magic Kingdom that actually has a Splash Mountain: Tokyo Disneyland. It once was planned for Disneyland Paris, but was cancelled due to all kinds of reasons.

If you don't even know what movie the attraction it's based on, then I'd really like to know what element of this ride could possibly trigger your Racist Radar.

B.T.W.: I'm wondering if anybody ever rode this ride. It seems like Tony Baxter of Disney fame, took quite an inspiration from that particular ride for what eventually became Splash Mountain.

[Lyle Romer]

I do remember when I saw the film as a kid, being bored by the live action segments.

I think the real tragedy of the S-O-S controversy is the loss of the Splash Mountain rides at the Disney Parks, which have nothing to do with the movie but are outstanding attractions in their own right. They are being retrofitted with a Princess and the Frog theme -- which seems odd, since that movie was sort of a flop. The rides will still be the same, but I fear for the theming being cringeworthy. Hope I'm wrong.

I think the Brer Rabbit theming is going to remain in the international parks. The whole change is stupid. Before the whole "controversy" was publicized, I doubt you could find 1 in 100,000 visitors to a Disney Park that associated the ride with anything remotely racist. It would probably be a low percentage who could even tell you what movie the ride was based on.

[Randy Stankey]

...It's true that the film-makers did not intend the picture to be overtly racist, and they largely succeeded. ...

I would say that the movie is more "culturally insensitive" than anything else, even for the times during which it was made.

As an adult, I don't like the stereotyping and, as Mark describes, the whitewashing of the gritty realities of that era. As a kid, when I first saw the movie, I didn't understand all of that stuff but I still had a funny feeling that told me, "Something's wrong with this picture," but I couldn't quite describe what it was.

The thing I wish they would have played up in the story is the idea that an old man, Uncle Remus, who shows care for other people no matter what race they are.
Uncle Remus was a former slave, living in poverty and went through all the other bad things that happened to Black people during that era but, still, he cared about Johnny enough to tell him stories to help him through his troubles.

Johnny was worried because he was afraid that his parents were breaking up and he ran away from home. Uncle Remus found him, took him back to his cabin, told him stories, fed him then convinced him to go back home.

Disney has a certain way of "fluffing up" stories. I think that their sense of "fluff," combined with their "white bread" style of cultural insensitivity, ruined what could have been a good movie.
Not to say that it wasn't a "well made" movie. It's just that its unsavory aspects overshadowed the good aspects.

If, ever, Song of the South were to be remade...not that I would want that but IF...I think they would do well to play up more of the good things.

[Mitchell Dvoskin]

Interesting article Mark.

[Mark Ogden]

An extensive discussion of pejoratives like "Aunt" and "Uncle" as they were used in relation to black people, from historian Ronald Davis:

https://files.nc.gov/dncr-moh/jim%20...0etiquette.pdf

I am not going to cut and paste this in the usual manner as it contains potentially offensive language, but here are relevant passages:

"All black men, on the other hand, were called by their first names or were referred to as "Boy," "Uncle," and "Old Man"--regardless of their age . . . Black women were addressed as "Auntie" or "girl." Under no circumstances would the title "Miss." or "Mrs." be applied . . . This practice of addressing blacks by words that denoted disrespect or inferiority reduced the black person to a non-person, especially in newspaper accounts."

There are many discussions of this found on line. It is, in part, why the brand name "Aunt Jemima" was retired.

And with all due respect to you, it doesn't matter what the actual plot of the film is, it's still a historical whitewash of a difficult era for African-Americans, be they sharecroppers, carpetbaggers, freemen or what have you. This has always been the issue with the film. It's true that the film-makers did not intend the picture to be overtly racist, and they largely succeeded. The trouble is that in intending to create a simple anodyne story of the Old South and a beloved old story teller, they managed to ignore the violence and inequity of the era to the rage of the people whose racial memories they (foolishly) provoked. Really, every time that I have come across this picture, I think that Disney was a fool to have undertaken it. In fact, after the film started shooting he began to have misgivings about it, telling the producer: “the negro situation is a dangerous one. Between the negro haters and the negro lovers there are many chances to run afoul of situations that could run the gamut all the way from the nasty to the controversial.” Well, he was right.

No offense to anybody, fellas, but I don't think it's appropriate for a bunch of pasty-assed white folks like ourselves to say that Song Of The South is not racist. It's neither our place, our history or our struggle.

[Mitchell Dvoskin]

The whole reason it's "Uncle" Remus and "Aunt" Tempy is that "Aunt" and "Uncle" were terms used not as endearments, but instead to diminish house slaves whose masters would not utter their formal names as equals

Respectfully, unless you have actual evidence supporting this, I have to disagree. Close friends and employees of a family are commonly referred to as "aunt" or "uncle" regardless of race of either parties. Mark, do you have any actual evidence from the 1800's thru 1946 that this naming convention was used to demean rather than as an endearment? I would actually be curious to find out.

The fact the the black characters in the film are treated so well is by itself pretty racist, frankly, because no African-American viewing the picture could possibly accept that would be the case, it is a de-facto insult to one's intelligence and has led over the years to charges that the film is populated by "Uncle Tom" characters, itself an offense to Black rectitude.

Quite honestly, no modern white American could accept that the black characters were treated so well, and if the film's purpose was to accurately show plantation life just after the civil war, you would have a point in that the film perpetuates the myth that poor black sharecroppers and servants were happy with their lot in life. However, the film was about a 10 year old boy who was spending the summer on his grandmothers plantation while being told various stories by an older black man who lived on the plantation, all of which had a moral or life lesson to them.

There's another possible reason for Disney to sit on the film: it's not very good, in fact it's one of the more tedious things that they ever produced.

No more or less boring than many other Disney films that have not held up over the years. I recently watched the Blu-Ray of 20,000 Thousand Leagues Under The Sea. I liked it as a kid, but as an adult is was a snooze fest that talked itself to death. Great special effect and set design, but maybe 10 minutes of action in an almost 2 hour movie...

The only thing Disney should do is add a card before the movie indicating that the movie takes place after the civil war. This was not needed in 1946 as the popularity of the books made that unnecessary in 1946.

[Steve Guttag]

Mike, I suspect that Princess and Frog, which has a meet and greet near the Castle in WDW was chosen due to the princess in that movie being black. I agree with most of what Marcel mentions above in post #13. I wouldn't even put the introductory on it. If they want it to be flagged for made in a different era with different accepted social norms, that is fine by me. Least people tamper with history too much, "Zip A Dee Doo Dah" won an Academy Award for best original song. It is still #47 on AFI's 100-years...100 songs. As to the film being racist...I'll keep my opinions on the matter to myself.

[Marcel Birgelen]

Not only are they getting rid of the Song of the South theming, which had none of the potentially problematic elements as there is no Uncle Remus and all the animals in the Briar Patch are "highly diverse", they're also seemingly getting rid of what once used to be Disney's unofficial theme song: Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah. The song has been quietly removed from rotation at the locations it used to play around the parks, except Tokyo; which will probably also keep its original theming for Splash Mountain.

While I can understand that Disney doesn't want to be part of too much controversies, as their image as a family friendly franchise may suffer under such conditions, I'd say that trying to erase their history this way really just achieves the opposite effect for me. The way we look now at certain issues is an evolution and hiding your own past is much more evil than just being open about it.

Song of the South should be on Disney+, like Leo indicated. It shouldn't be advertised in any way, but if I specifically search for it, it should still pop up. Maybe they can add a small introductory, which describes the film, the setting in which it was created and explain what the controversies are and why movies like this would not be made today.

[Mike Blakesley]

I do remember when I saw the film as a kid, being bored by the live action segments.

I think the real tragedy of the S-O-S controversy is the loss of the Splash Mountain rides at the Disney Parks, which have nothing to do with the movie but are outstanding attractions in their own right. They are being retrofitted with a Princess and the Frog theme -- which seems odd, since that movie was sort of a flop. The rides will still be the same, but I fear for the theming being cringeworthy. Hope I'm wrong.