70mm Oppenheimer

[Paul H. Rayton]

To Ryan in Austin -- Any chance you could post the actual text of the article from the San Antonio Express News? I've tried to access it several times and continually receive a pop-up that insists I become a subscriber. I'm curious to read the report ... but not curious enough to start an actual subscription! Thanks.

[Marco Giustini]

Steve,
Lossless audio was available with the XD10. This is from the XD10 manual:

DTS.jpg

I ran a couple of features in Lossless DTS on the XD10, audio arrived on DVDs. One of them was 8ch if memory served. It was a test at the time but definitely possible.

I've also found this which gives some explanation of what "DTS Coherent Acoustic" is: https://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_ts...14v010101p.pdf

[Ryan Gallagher]

Well my day trip from Austin idea is postponed. Rough opening weekend for the 70mm tech in San Antionio! Feel for ya. (Audio Failure) Sending good fedex vibes!

https://www.expressnews.com/entertai...o-18254499.php

[Steve Guttag]

Marco...where did the lossless audio come from? Did it not use the DTS codec that was used for cinema?

[Marco Giustini]

Why develop? I ran 8ch lossless DTS on an XD10 in the past. It was with mainstream 35mm content. It’s there already.

[Harold Hallikainen]

How about putting the SMPTE FSK time code on the film sound track, then feed it into an Atmos or other IAB processor? Tell the processor where the IAB file is and let it sync the audio with the film the same way it syncs in an Atmos/IAB system. If there is not an IAB mix, create one with just the "bed" channels and no objects for 7.1 or whatever.

[Steve Guttag]

Nobody is going to develop such a thing for a multi-decade obsolete box. You'd have a better chance of someone developing a means to use something modern to stream high bit rate audio and just needing to sync it to the movie. So, long as they could use the DTS time code, it would eliminate the dual inventory of prints. I'd say that they already have the LPCM audio for the DCPs, which likely is where the DTS version originates anyway.

[Marco Giustini]

Dolby and DTS did well with their compression algorithms but nobody would use them if they have the space for lossless digital at CD bit rates or better. Even on current consumer video, that use DTS- Master Audio HD or Dolby TrueHD, which are ported to be lossless formats, they are being used for marketing and to save on space (either storage or streaming bandwidth).

Which takes me to a question: why not also create a lossless format able to play on the XD10s? "Coherent Acoustic" I believe it's called on the manual. I know it was done a few times when 35mm was around. Sure, it would mean twice the inventory but for such a special format I feel it would be worth? With the latest XD10 version it could be sent via USB stick I guess.

Unless it was created - but AFAIK the version we've got here is regular lossy DTS.

[Steve Guttag]

I'm calling BS on this one. Robert Altman was famous for having background characters "muttering." And by background, I'm not just referring to "extras," they could be the stars too, but not the prime interest, at that moment. It is obvious that the people in the background are not the prime focus of the audio and it is notably lower but not overtly muffled and can even be humorous, if you can make it out. Making something unintelligible just because one is not supposed to be able to hear everyone within frame is absurd. It should sound realistic, like you are there and if people are talking off in the distance, then it is fine for it to sound that way.

[Ian Puffenberger]

Do you know how the sound is being delivered for the 15/70 IMAX presentations? The theater that I will be seeing it in had IMAX.....WITH LASER installed which I assume also included the upgrade to the 12 channel sound system. Will the soundtrack be delivered via the legacy method for 15/70 and only use the channels that used to exist or is the 15/70 projector synchronized to the digital system to use the same soundtrack as the IMAX....WITH LASER presentations?

I don't know about the delivery method, but there's no 12-channel mix on Oppenheimer. As far as I recall, Nolan has never done a mix above 5.1 on any of his films. So you'll be hearing the regular 6-track IMAX soundtrack.

[Steve Guttag]

It's all "ones & zeroes" and 'bits are bits', no matter where they come from.
(I'm oversimplifying a bit, - - but the principle is the point)

That is a little too much over simplification. DTS is a lossy format. It was using the space that normally just 2-channel audio would occupy on a CD to hold 5-6 channels. It does not compare favorably to plain-Jane LPCM audio running at 16 bit 44.1KHz (standard CD) and less so to 24 bit/96KHz. There are more bits in the better formats, including those used by DCPs. IMAX, even back when, used three CDs to get their 6-track mix as straight up LPCM rather than going with a lossy compression formats like Dolby and DTS.

Dolby and DTS did well with their compression algorithms but nobody would use them if they have the space for lossless digital at CD bit rates or better. Even on current consumer video, that use DTS- Master Audio HD or Dolby TrueHD, which are ported to be lossless formats, they are being used for marketing and to save on space (either storage or streaming bandwidth).

[Lyle Romer]

Well, from a strictly technological standpoint, the sound is digital, and it isn't actually "on" the 5/70 or 15/70
film prints, but gets played back from a separate device, and being as how it's digital, how good, or bad, it
sounds is going to be determined mostly by the amplifiers, speakers and acoustic properties of the venue,
& not by the physical film format. It's all "ones & zeroes" and 'bits are bits', no matter where they come from.
(I'm oversimplifying a bit, - - but the principle is the point)

Just FYI- For the next couple of weeks, we've temporarily changed my job title from 'projectionist' to
"Official Assistant Deputy Director Of Oppenheimer Operations"

Do you know how the sound is being delivered for the 15/70 IMAX presentations? The theater that I will be seeing it in had IMAX.....WITH LASER installed which I assume also included the upgrade to the 12 channel sound system. Will the soundtrack be delivered via the legacy method for 15/70 and only use the channels that used to exist or is the 15/70 projector synchronized to the digital system to use the same soundtrack as the IMAX....WITH LASER presentations?

[Jim Cassedy]

(edited) It will be interesting also to hear how deep the base is on these 70mm regular or Imax film prints.

Well, from a strictly technological standpoint, the sound is digital, and it isn't actually "on" the 5/70 or 15/70
film prints, but gets played back from a separate device, and being as how it's digital, how good, or bad, it
sounds is going to be determined mostly by the amplifiers, speakers and acoustic properties of the venue,
& not by the physical film format. It's all "ones & zeroes" and 'bits are bits', no matter where they come from.
(I'm oversimplifying a bit, - - but the principle is the point)

Just FYI- For the next couple of weeks, we've temporarily changed my job title from 'projectionist' to
"Official Assistant Deputy Director Of Oppenheimer Operations"

[Lyle Romer]

There are actually a few digital Xenon IMAX theaters with legacy 1.43:1 screens. They're restricted to playing content at 1.90:1 though.

As for laser, there's two flavors. CoLa ("Commercial Laser") uses a single projector and is restricted to 1.90:1. GT Laser uses two projectors and can project at 1.43:1. The GT laser theaters with 1.43:1 screens will screen Oppenheimer in that ratio.

IIRC, the GT systems use 2 projectors that are overlapped for brightness due to the screen size and use anamorphic lenses to stretch the image vertically to get the 1.43:1 ratio.

[Allan Young]

I have a question for any Imax or 70mm folks. If I see Oppenheimer in the many regular non 70mm Imax theatres in the SF Bay Area in 2 projector Imax DCP will only the middle scope image be shown or will the whole top & bottom print image be on the semi large square Imax screen for Oppenheimer?

According to the list of laser and 15/70 locations on Wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ues#California), there are only two non-70mm screens with 1.43:1 screens in California (Fresno and the California Science Center), so you'll be looking at a digital location with a 1.90:1 screen. Oppenheimer will fill those screens throughout.

As far as I know, none of the standard digital IMAX theatres have a 1.43:1 ratio screen. A few of the IMAX.....WITH LASER theatres, mostly legacy "museum" sites, are set up for that ratio but I don't know if they have made a special DCP for those that uses the same ratio as the 15/70 film presentations.

There are actually a few digital Xenon IMAX theaters with legacy 1.43:1 screens. They're restricted to playing content at 1.90:1 though.

As for laser, there's two flavors. CoLa ("Commercial Laser") uses a single projector and is restricted to 1.90:1. GT Laser uses two projectors and can project at 1.43:1. The GT laser theaters with 1.43:1 screens will screen Oppenheimer in that ratio.