Ooops, up again, great...

[Marcel Birgelen]

Yeah, OVH, what can I say, I'm surprised it took so long? Unfortunately, it seems to be true: you get what you pay for. We host some VMs with them, but nothing critical, just mirrors for data-hungry stuff, as their bandwidth pricing of "unlimited" is pretty much unbeatable... They've had large to humongous outages before. Not like it doesn't happen elsewhere, but it often was stuff that I'd consider unacceptable... Like when their ONLY fiber connection to their mega datacenter in Canada went down... or when their two route servers, went down and took the whole network with it for a day or so... Or in that same location back in 2017, when the power failed in all four of their datacenters on that same location... I don't even know if they use actual fire suppression inside their data centers, it's all built for maximum density and volume. It's not like their facilities are in any way comparable to what even Amazon, Google or Microsoft deploy, let alone what kind of redundancy high-end datacenter operators offer, but at other price ranges.

So there you have it: The cloud can go up in smoke. That's why nowadays, we distribute data all over the planet. Just make sure you only distribute it to the people that should have access to it.

[David Ferguson]

Going back to the discussion of cloud hosting, as I'm finding today, it's certainly not without issues! https://www.datacenterknowledge.com/...ta-center-sbg2
Most of my stuff was hosted there. Luckily I have monthly backups on a drive at home. I had daily backups too, but those were to another server that's burnt down... I'm rethinking that idea now!

[Marcel Birgelen]

A European style church built any time between the Middle Ages and the mid-c20 - uninsulated brick and glass, with a tall, vaulted ceiling - definitely. The structure is essentially a large acoustic amplifier, to enable a relatively small choir and organ to fill the place. Many modern churches aren't that architecturally different from a typical theater, though. Here is mine:

Yeah, I pretty much forgot that many of your churches were built after the invention of the electric amplifier and more resemble modern auditoriums than the (post)medieval, "mile-high" temples of worship we have around here. While many of those structures are mightily impressive, they're pretty much single-use venues the way they're built. (Although fitness centers really seem to fit quite nicely, although it's another kind of worship going on there .) While many protestant churches around here are far less ornamental in design than their catholic counterparts, they're still mostly big, longish, high structures with hard walls.

[Leo Enticknap]

I guess the problems with those kind of buildings is that most of them are listed somehow.

And, depending on the religion and denomination that built them, the requirement for deconsecration. In cases where the religious organization actually has legally recognized status in the country involved (e.g. the Roman Catholic Church in Italy), this can be an involved legal process, and a nontrivial issue.

Also, keep in mind that the acoustic qualities inside a church were designed for anything else than a normal workplace. The cavernous echo in most of those places would drive me nuts...

A European style church built any time between the Middle Ages and the mid-c20 - uninsulated brick and glass, with a tall, vaulted ceiling - definitely. The structure is essentially a large acoustic amplifier, to enable a relatively small choir and organ to fill the place. Many modern churches aren't that architecturally different from a typical theater, though. Here is mine:

lluc.jpg
Though obviously, it's been a long time (about a year) since that many people were in it, sadly. it's reopening tomorrow for services at 25% occupancy (with a requirement to pre-register).

The City Screen, right? Fond memories of driving up there from London in 2003 to catch Earthquake in 70mm Sensurround. Lovely little cinema. I think it even had THX certification?

If you drove, I imagine you got sucked into the Inner Ring Road and one-way system, lost and frustrated to the point of melting down, and then eventually found the Museum Gardens car park and were charged an horrific sum just to park for a couple of hours while you saw the movie. That's what happens to most people who decide to make a short trip to York by car.

The theater was converted from a former newspaper printing works (which underscores Marcel's point about Europeans repurposing buildings), with the THX screen being in the shell of the old building, and RSJ-framed structures added to either side of it holding screens 2, 3, and the lobby and bar. 70mm was added after I left, by the chief who took over from me (Darren Briggs, who posts here occasionally). He found a Vic 8 from somewhere (complete with a good mag head!), and swapped it out with one of the two Vic 5s the place opened with, and added the parts needed to convert the Cinemeccanica platter for dual gauge (brain, dual profile rollers, and I believe the motor control cards had to be changed, too).

[Allan Young]

Between 1999 and 2001 I worked in a 3-screen arthouse in York, England.

The City Screen, right? Fond memories of driving up there from London in 2003 to catch Earthquake in 70mm Sensurround. Lovely little cinema. I think it even had THX certification?

[uncomplimentary pejorative term for Christians]

Is the term "god botherers" banned around these parts then?

[Marcel Birgelen]

Around here, empty churches seem to be a fitness-center favorite... Some of them end up converted to a concert hall. We had one around that was a night-club for a short while but now seems to be an indoor playground. Quite a few churches in cities and larger towns seem to become vacant, I guess at least around here it's a sign of a strong "consolidation" happening in religious movements.

I guess the problems with those kind of buildings is that most of them are listed somehow, severely limiting the amount of adaptations you can do to the building itself and you may also be liable for keeping it in shape.

The biggest problem I see with using churches for anything other than a gathering place for lots of folks, is trying to keep the place warm. Also, keep in mind that the acoustic qualities inside a church were designed for anything else than a normal workplace. The cavernous echo in most of those places would drive me nuts, if I needed to work in there all days. Another issue that comes to mind is stuff like providing sufficient daylight, if that is a thing in your local jurisdiction.

[Leo Enticknap]

Between 1999 and 2001 I worked in a 3-screen arthouse in York, England. The city also contains one of oldest, largest, and historically interesting Christian churches in the world (York Minster). As I was walking past it with a co-worker one morning, he commented that "If only we could get those [uncomplimentary pejorative term for Christians] out, that place would make a great IMAX 4-plex."

[Bruce Cloutier]

We are looking for facilities and there was the fancy church on the market not far away. Assuming that the zoning could be changed it would have been an interesting setting for producing product. And... we could enlist a whole new level of assistance against software and hardware issues. We would need to employ an organist and perhaps a choir.

More interesting is a nearby vacant Max & Erma's restaurant which had a nice little bar area which we would leave in place if it hasn't been scavenged. Uh... not quite the same affect on quality and reliability though. Probably would entice more engineers to apply for employment.

An Ark implies surviving a disaster and... well... I've had enough disaster for the time being.

[Carsten Kurz]

Just build an ark for your company and home, like Steve Carell did. Could actually be funny.

[Bruce Cloutier]

I had a thought once about getting a place in a more tropical location but with disasters like hurricanes and such we too often see images from those places that are way too scary. Western Pennsylvania is pretty benign along those lines. But I had an idea to get a surplus submarine like an old U-boat or something and bury it in the backyard in a place like that. All you would see is the conning tower. Then the place could totally flood over and, well, we'd still be partying.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

I've seen pictures of people surviving in some steel box above ground, even after a direct-hit EF5... I don't know if I'd wager my luck on that though... The whole thing also looks pretty claustrophobic even though I don't really suffer from claustrophobia in the general sense...

Based on intuition alone, I'd say that a thick concrete basement would probably be a better protection, but without empirical numbers those arguments are hard to make. Stuff like flooding and being trapped by debris may be a larger risk factor in a basement than in an above-ground shelter.

I think I'm lucky we've never seen anything heavier than an EF2 around here, but apparently, freak EF4 and EF5 tornadoes do sometimes happen and incidents with smaller tornadoes have increased dramatically over the last 25 years over here.

Regarding earthquakes... I think the 5.8 magnitude quake that happened about 28 years ago in the region around here was an eye opener. While in many regions a 5.8 earthquake may be considered a fart in the wind, it did considerable damage and it was only pure luck it didn't kill anyone. I guess this also has lead to a shift in how new structures are built. While in the past putting up a cinder block wall was sufficient for many load-bearing structures, this often is no longer the case and steel or concrete reinforcements are often required.

Yes, there are armored steel storm boxes one can be safe in, but they are not at all common around here. Bobby's idea of getting the hell out of there is also quite dangerous, Just a year ago we had a big tornado go through the north end of Nashville. This thing was an EF4 and was on the ground for over a half hour. Lots of people caught video of it. Thing is, if you try to drive away from it you will likely be stuck in traffic where everyone else is also trying to flee from it. Getting back to the tornado's here a year ago. There was not JUST the one Nashville tornado... there were four more across the northern part of the State at the same time, all pretty much in line. The Nashville tornado hit the NW corner of Nashville then traveled across town all the way to Mt Juliet. A distance of about 30 miles...

[Marcel Birgelen]

I've seen pictures of people surviving in some steel box above ground, even after a direct-hit EF5... I don't know if I'd wager my luck on that though... The whole thing also looks pretty claustrophobic even though I don't really suffer from claustrophobia in the general sense...

Based on intuition alone, I'd say that a thick concrete basement would probably be a better protection, but without empirical numbers those arguments are hard to make. Stuff like flooding and being trapped by debris may be a larger risk factor in a basement than in an above-ground shelter.

I think I'm lucky we've never seen anything heavier than an EF2 around here, but apparently, freak EF4 and EF5 tornadoes do sometimes happen and incidents with smaller tornadoes have increased dramatically over the last 25 years over here.

Regarding earthquakes... I think the 5.8 magnitude quake that happened about 28 years ago in the region around here was an eye opener. While in many regions a 5.8 earthquake may be considered a fart in the wind, it did considerable damage and it was only pure luck it didn't kill anyone. I guess this also has lead to a shift in how new structures are built. While in the past putting up a cinder block wall was sufficient for many load-bearing structures, this often is no longer the case and steel or concrete reinforcements are often required.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

Basements are no guarantee. I don't know of any cities or towns that require homes to be built with basements. Housing is already too damned expensive as it is without mandating expensive extras like basements and/or storm cellars. With the weather technology we have today combined with mobile technology it's actually much easier to give people a lot of advanced warning. If I know a bad enough storm is about to mow through a specific location and I have enough time to react I'm going to be more inclined to get out of the storm's way rather than hunkering down.

Basements sure provide a whole better chance of surviving..... And you are right about basements not being required. I never stated that, I just stated that I never lived in a house that didn't have one...

[Bobby Henderson]

Basements are no guarantee. I don't know of any cities or towns that require homes to be built with basements. Housing is already too damned expensive as it is without mandating expensive extras like basements and/or storm cellars. With the weather technology we have today combined with mobile technology it's actually much easier to give people a lot of advanced warning. If I know a bad enough storm is about to mow through a specific location and I have enough time to react I'm going to be more inclined to get out of the storm's way rather than hunkering down.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

Basements do not qualify as worthy safe rooms in the event of a tornado. Only a truly fortified safe room with thick concrete walls built in the center of a home or down basement, or does. A separate storm cellar built completely below ground can also work.

If you try riding out a tornado in an ordinary basement and your house suffers a direct hit you'll still be directly exposed to all kinds of danger. Much of the house could collapse in on you. In that scenario you could be terribly injured immediately and/or trapped in the debris. You could have flood waters pouring in while you're trapped or badly injured. In a severe enough tornado strike, such as the F5 that hit Jarrell, TX in 1998, the funnel will just scour you right out of that basement. That one even chewed the tops off storm cellars that weren't built completely below ground.

Some homes, but not very many, around here do have basements. The soil is more challenging. More often any below ground floors are typically found in commercial office buildings.

Bobby, I actually know several people who survived tornado's by being in the corner of their basement. So there is obviously a lot better chance of surviving one crouching in the corner of a basement than standing on a concrete slab.