UPS Failure Quirk, how worried should I be?

[Ryan Gallagher]

Here is a fun one.

TLDR: How dangerous is it for a Christie CP2200 to lose CP power (but not lamp power) when the unit is on?

We have two Middle Atlantic MA-UPS2200R that service the booth. One for the DCinema audio rack (minus the surround amps), and one in the Christie CP2200 pedestal for Doremi + Christie CP etc.

I learned of a really nasty failure mode in the audio rack when we would arrive to work and the UPS and rack was off. For a few days we did not know the cause cause the UPS did not complain when turned back on, but within 24h it would fail to off again. Never was in the booth to witness and luckily happened during non-film events, so unsure if it threw any alarms before doing so.

In the end it was of course a dead battery pack and the replacement resolved it. But I'm very uneasy about this NO NOTICE ups failure mode. I would have thought it should fail to bypassing the batteries and just performing power distribution alone (while blaring an alarm).

I tested the cells in the UPS in the projector stand, they are on their way out and showing some physical signs of age too, but it hasn't quit on us yet.

I requested 2 replacement battery modules from mangement at the time but only got 1 for the actual failed UPS. I've made them promise to get me the other before SXSW, but how worried should I be until then?

I'm tempted to buy 4 cells myself and refurb the old module, just to have it in the booth just in case, use it until I get the replacement and then take the cells home for my own UPS servicing next time.

[Dave Macaulay]

Christie S2 PIBs have a nasty habit of failing after a power cycle. We only do that when absolutely necessary, and try to have a spare in hand when it is. There's a dodgy PIB recovery process that sometimes works, using a special device from Christie.

[Ryan Gallagher]

Christie S2 PIBs have a nasty habit of failing after a power cycle. We only do that when absolutely necessary, and try to have a spare in hand when it is. There's a dodgy PIB recovery process that sometimes works, using a special device from Christie.

We used to try to leave our christie pedestal on all the time, but lately cycling it seems to be the only way to resolve an extremely laggy touch panel UI that seems to get worse over time, which also seems to impact the reliability of the projector automation functions. So now I tend to power cycle the whole pedestal before a film to force the TP to reboot. But if that is also risky sounds like we need to put more effort into resolving the laggy UI issue another way.

Predictably seems you are saying unexpected power loss would be something to avoid in general, and to replace the suspect UPS batteries asap given the fact it will just turn itself off when they finally fail.

[Carsten Kurz]

We used to use APC UPS devices in general IT installations for years. Actually, the only device shutdowns we ever had here (Germany) were caused by bad batteries. I really don't understand why a standard UPS does not simply continue passing through mains if the battery goes bad.

[Carsten Kurz]

We used to use APC UPS devices in general IT installations for years. Actually, the only device shutdowns we ever had here (Germany) were caused by bad batteries. I really don't understand why a standard UPS does not simply continue passing through mains if the battery goes bad. I don't mind it beeping the hell out of me in that case, but it should simply NOT shut down the hard way.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

We used to use APC UPS devices in general IT installations for years. Actually, the only device shutdowns we ever had here (Germany) were caused by bad batteries. I really don't understand why a standard UPS does not simply continue passing through mains if the battery goes bad.

The rule of thumb on battery life is not to push em longer than 5 years, and I generally replaced them at 4 years. If you have a Plex to re-battery, many battery dealers will give discounts on quantities of batteries. UPS's usually only generate power if the feed is lost. But there are auto/Manual bypass panels you can install if you want to Both Tripp Lite and APC make them in both manual, and auto. A couple of the theaters I used to service kept one in the booth in case one of their UPS's died. But your MPX needs to be turining really big numbers to justify one on say all 10 or 12 screens.

[Steve Guttag]

We were (and to some degree are) using Tripp Lite UPSes and learned the hard way that when the battery dies, the whole UPS pretends it is dead (no front panel lights...nothing) and no power on the output. When then started putting in automatic transfer switches so if a UPS died, city power would take over. We've used a mix of our own ATS and commercial ones (like from Cyber Power). We also, now use a mix of APC and Tripp Lite (Eaton). In general, I've found that the APC units are better and have not dropped the power out. We tend towards the "On-line" (aka double-conversion) units fro the respective brands...so, for Tripp Lite, the "SU" series like the SU1500 and the SRT series from APC. The APCs notably more expensive than Tripp Lite but they are also built more beefy as are their battery packs. Tripp Lite will use plastic shells for their batteries and tape or just tape (and I mean either packing or gaffers) while APC will use a sharpened sheet metal case or a fully molded plastic.

Just yesterday we were changing out all of the batteries in a 10-plex...nearly 50 of them (at 4 batteries per UPS). The worst part is schlepping those SLAs up/down the stairs.

[Ryan Gallagher]

As i have no note of when they were last serviced, and a couple cells were swelling, i’m gonna assume they are the same age as the failed ones and overdue.

If we ever replace the UPS itself will definitely be looking into the failure mode feature set.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

How old is this system? That's likely how old the batteries are. More than 5 years old if they have swollen...

[Leo Enticknap]

Whenever I install a new system or replace a UPS battery set, I put a printed label machine sticky on the front of it saying "Battery replacement due by [date four years from now]." It works: we are now regularly called and emailed by theaters I was at four years ago, where the label was noticed and site staff actually act on it. I do the same thing with CP850s, Doremi and GDC IMBs and Barco ICMPs, too, even though GDCs and Barcos with up to date software are supposed to detect low voltage and put a nag on the UI.

[Ryan Gallagher]

Whenever I install a new system or replace a UPS battery set, I put a printed label machine sticky on the front of it saying "Battery replacement due by [date four years from now]."

I'll update my note on the one I serviced with a due date, great idea.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

I had booth logs in most places, especially multiplex's. Hard to say if they are still around or not. But I always added it in there. Having one is nice because Projectionists were supposed to jot down any issues or quirks... They were pretty good about doing that.

[Randy Stankey]

When I worked for the Cinemark theater in Erie, we had booth logs from the first day the theater opened until the last day they ran film.

There was one section, kept in a loose leaf notebook for daily activity, the names of anybody who worked the booth that day, notes of any problems, comments and even a few jokes. Another section was kept on clipboards, the overflow pages got moved to file folders in the bottom desk drawer, which tracked lamp changes and every hour on every projector's hour meter from the moment they were installed. A third section, kept in the back of the first notebook, tracked any maintenance and equipment changes. Let's say an amplifier bit the dust. Make, model and serial number were logged in and logged out, making notes of who did them and when.

We got a call from somebody at 20th Century saying that there had been a report of an unauthorized showing of Star Wars: Episode 1. I was able to prove that it wasn't true because I went through the booth logs and the projectors' meter readings then compared them with the show schedule for the time period in question.

The movie's feature running time was just over two hours. When I added in the average time for the trailer and ad reels, I got a total running time of approximately two and a half hours. When I finished doing the math, I came up with less than an hour's worth of unaccounted time for the whole booth. Seventeen projectors combined!

I wrote up a report and the theater manager sent it back to the studio. We never heard back from them, again... Ever! Complete radio silence from that day forward!

When Tinseltown quit running film the guy who was there on the last day took everything home with him and, as far as I know, they are still in the back of that guy's closet, some place.

There are plenty of good reasons to keep a booth log, even if it's just a spiral bound notebook, bought from Walmart. Answering questions about what movies had been run and when is only one of them.

[Dave Macaulay]

We used a lot of APC UPS units for the digital rollout and have had to replace batteries at least once on most of them. Projectors, usually not on UPS. Christie mostly yes, because of how many PIBs have failed on powerup. Barco no, except the (few, maybe none by now) evil DP3000s that barely stay running even if never powered off.
Basically for external servers. They all have two power supplies so one is powered from battery backup and one from the wall or surge protect. Doremis screech if one supply goes down, so maybe someone notices: that beep alone means the UPS has failed, if the power has failed you also get a beep beep from the UPS until its battery dies. We have also put in power fail cue devices that pause server playback in larger multis to make restart fairly easy after a power failure.
I don't have a preference for UPS brands. But I suggest a name brand like APC or Tripplite. Not whatever mystery or zombie brand is cheapest on Amazon, AliExpress, or Alibaba.

[Gordon McLeod]

We migrated to Cyber power UPS with good luck