TMS nightmare

[Armand Daiguillon]

Hello all,

So I just took over a new location.
My old location has NEC 900c's with GDC IMB's (sx3000) and GDC TMS (dunno the version but works on the Windows 2008 server)
New location has NEC 900C's with doreime IMB and TCC Tms (hollywood software v3.5.3)

I always found the GDC TMS to lack some functions, but it always worked fine.
Now that i'm at another theater trying this TCC software - its like a big nightmare. Nothing makes sense. Cant even just load an spl and play a show at the projector i have to "schedule" it first.
I cant even figure out how to create a simple spl in this damn thing.(in the tms, i can create at projector) I hate it VERY VERY much. The person who quickly showed me how to do stuff (before quitting next day) ingested kdm's by seemingly logging into their dolby sound processor s ? (huh ? why? - The whole setup just seems to make no sense, what does the cp750 have to do with a kdm ?.)

So first am i just being a big baby and the TCC Tms is fine I just need to learn how to use it .... or is it just truly inferior crap ?
Could the same GDC TMS from my other location be installed here ? Any idea what the cost for this older version might be ? (would have to be old version to run on win 2008 server)

Let me know your thoughts.

Thanks !!!

[Steve Guttag]

I support the TCC (and its new decedent, ACE) and the GDC TMS (As well as Dolby's old Show Manger TMS and now Cine Digital). Both will run on Windows server 2008. TCC runs on as late as Server 2012...GDC runs on most anything...even a desktop PC.

Without a doubt, customers that I have, that run both GDC and TCC (different sites but common people) strongly prefer the TCC (or ACE)

There are two different philosophies at play here. The TCC is built around an automated theatre. One sets up templates that allows for very uniform shows and once the templates are set, all the manager has to do is make their preshow packs (trailers and/or ads...if you have screenvision for ads, those can be fully automatic as well). The TCC will take care of getting content to the servers (warn you when you don't have what you need or if it isn't there in a timely manner). The TCC likes to be 48-hours ahead on tasks. So, if a move starts on Thursday night, it will move the content Tuesday night and start building the SPLs. If you made a change in the schedule, it will roll with the punches and move things about. This is why it doesn't move things until 48-hours prior...as things can change leading up to that point.

The TCC really wants POS integration. It isn't required but it sure makes life easier. Again...we are talking about automated systems. You can certainly manually place shows in schedule viewer and it will put all of the preshow stuff on using that method as well but it does integrate with most POS systems out there. A sore point for me on the TCC is that it does not have a KDM email client to automatically receive KDMs. It does have a KDM utility so if you download your KDMs, you can upload them easily enough but why should the manager have to bother with such things? It will do its job of alerting one that KDMs are not where they need to be so that, if needed, manual intervention can be done.

The GDC TMS, particularly if their own Templating system isn't implemented is MUCH MUCH more manual about things. That, I suspect, is what you are used to. You are used to manually building up your shows...once you tweak them to how you like them, sending them to the individual screen. I find that part a bit repetitive and having to tick off each show (or untick part of them)...making sure one maps each and every title for each and every transfer is again, repetitive.

No lie, the time spent on a GDC TMS using its traditional work flow is about 10 times longer than the TCC. All the manger has to do with the TCC is title map (which is where the credit offset is done), decide what is in the add/trailer packs...and they're done. The TCC even has a priority system where you can have special trailers/ads for select movies that will take priority over the standard once that you can set up by rating (typically).

It would surprise me if one spends more than 15-20 minutes a week working with the TCC, regardless of plex size.

The key to the TCC is getting one's templates right and adding in any extra markers, if needed, to allow for the types of cues that may be specific to a particular chain.

You are absolutely correct that the TCC does not help you in any way, while looking at the program. It names things in a funny way...like "Monitor LMS" is one of the key places to look for ingesting (no mention of ingest is anywhere around there) while Monitor Players is almost never used but it would seem like something more important.

Screens you should find one uses on a weekly basis:

• Home
• Monitor LMS
• Title Mapping
• Content Placement (Ads, Trailers)
• Schedule Viewer (to a lesser extent...but if you like to manually do things...it grows in importance)

However, it all starts with getting the Templates right. They are a little deceptive in how they work and what to expect when you work/tweak them. But once you get them the way you want them, you never really have to mess with them...except to change, say a policy marker or some goofy show that needs something special because of some dumb intro that doesn't really fit the template. So, you have to do most of your work, up front when you start using the program...but every time after that...it cuts way down on work.

BTW..you CAN build up a show manually on the TCC but that is definitely not its native way of doing things, at all. That is best done on the individual screen server. If you do want to hand-build a show, you'd do it from Schedule Viewer. Create a show...then open the show and on the right side, there is an openable pane that has all of the content that you can drag and drop.

So, calm down. Take a deep breath. Realize you will need to learn it. But, unless you really need most shows customized, the TCC will become your friend and cut work down substantially. it is actually a pretty cool TMS.

[Jim Cassedy]

For whatever its' worth: I empathize with you. About a year ago I was thrown into a situation using SONY
projectors, servers, & TMS. Of all the digital systems out there, SONY is the one that I had absolutely
ZERO exposure or experience with, It was like learning a completely new language, and for the first
couple of weeks, I was completely befuddled. I'm usually pretty good at adapting to new technolgies
and systems - - but for some reason, I just couldn't seem to grasp the SONY system. I began to
question my technical abilities, Maybe I was just getting 'too old' for all this & it was time for me to retire.
I'm quite 'financially secure", so I don't need the money. - - but I was too proud & stubborn to give up.

I almost dreaded going in to work every day, knowing I'd have to deal with "that stupid Sony system"
I kept plugging at it, and I knew that one day I'd come to work and suddenly it would all make sense.
- - and that's exactly what happened! I don't know how, or why, but one day 'the little light bulb of
knowledge' just appeared in my head and whatever mental log-jam I had, suddenly disappeared.
- - from your post, you seem like an intelligent guy- - and someone who wants to 'do their best' in
this crazy business. So don't give up, Keep plugging at it, and one day you'll have your "Eureka
Moment" and will become the master of your machine. . . and soon you'll look back on this and laugh.

[Leo Enticknap]

Some software just has a steeper learning curve than other. The only times I've ever had to tangle with a TCC installation have been when I've installed or replaced a server that has to talk to it, and have therefore had to reconfigure it to get the two to communicate with each other. That is also a highly unintuitive process, including, IIRC, a procedure to unhide menus that are hidden when logged in to end user mode. I took copious notes, and would have to go back to them if I ever have to do that again.

We've had a couple of customers that have effectively been forced to switch from the Dolby TMS to GDC in recent months, due to motherboard failures and the fact that the Dolby TMS has to run under CentOS 5.8, and there now appears to be no server motherboard on the market that can run it. The reaction among end users has been near universally negative. The Dolby TMS (the Doremi-derived one, not Show Manager) was one of the better ones, and that's yet another example of Dolby abandoning a well designed and popular product.

[Frank Cox]

Have you considered running Centos 5.8 under Virtualbox? VB can be set up in a full-screen mode that looks like it's the only thing running on the machine even though the host platform is pretty much anything you want that VB will run on.

[Steve Guttag]

Leo, I'll take your word about the intuitiveness of the TCC configuration for servers. I've used it so much over the last decade, I already know where things are. But it absolutely doesn't hold one's hand. They had a training class (in Hollywood) for learning how to commission/support it. It was a 3-day class, as I recall. When TCC 3 came out, they really locked the system down (Windows Server 2003) and EVERY TCC was like the other so if they changed anything in their lab, it would be an exact match to the field. They pretty well locked out end-users from being able to get to the Windows environment and to be able to download things that would cause issues.

As for server swaps, if they are brand-to-brand (DSS for DSS or Doremi for Doremi or GDC for GDC) you really didn't have to do ANYTHING other than hook it up (and make sure the automation cues were all there. If you are changing server makes, then it is only slightly harder. You would do it from the Home screen, of all places! Go to the "Schedule Today" panel, click on the screen number of server to be changed. That will open box where you can disconnect the existing server. Once disconnected, you just have to reconnect and during that, via a drop-down select the type of server that is now being connected. That's it...less than a minute.

However, it is in no way intuitive that such a thing would be in the Schedule-Today area. One can also use Status-Player on the home screen. I have no defense for such things. You'd think it would be somewhere in an administrator configuration area. BTW...changing projector make/model is done from the same area!

The TCC considers three things when determining the similarity of various screens for equipment. The Server, the Projector and...(anyone?, anyone?)...the Automation. If any of those three do not match, then, potentially different cues may be needed. The Dolby DSS servers were always fussy about their cues from TMSes and don't do Macros. So, how one handles cues on the DSS servers is likely different than GDC or Doremi. Doremi doesn't just automatically switch to 3D mode because there is 3D content in there...so, that server may need an additional cue to tell it to make the switch.

If one is on patch (though it happened earlier), one could edit "markers" cues and cause TCC cues to be used differently between the combinations. Here is one site where there are three variants.

Screen Shot 2022-08-10 at 11.14.15 PM.png

I've gone to decent lengths to avoid having "different" cues amongst the systems. I use the eCNA as the great equalizer that harmonizes what cues are needed, regardless of server or sound processor or projector. The server fires the same named cue regardless of server brand and the DSS' lack of macros is negated as the eCNA has 50 macros at the ready.

ACE is a bit more intuitive on setup and there are no Excel spreadsheets (and they had to be Excel made using .XLS). The spreadsheets were for original configuration and also to add in additional volume cues...which I took great advantage. ACE did put the server disconnect/connect under "Device Status"

[Armand Daiguillon]

I'm taking all your advice and trying to learn it .... but it still seems inferior.
TCC does use templates, but so did GDC. With GDC I simply copied an spl from previous week (template) just changed the movie out, plopped in the trailers I wanted on that film and in the order I wanted them (which can vary) and updated the preshow content all with simple drag and drop. Doing it on TCC is very hard when each movie is very different.
The scheduling on TCC also takes literally 6 times as long as there is way to copy to other days. In GDC I enter each showtime once and it copies it to the rest of the week, in TCC I have to do each show time each day manually. I called GDC to get pricing on the old version that will run on our old server (a Windows 2003) they just got back to me and said i needed to talk to a dealer. I'm terrified by how much it might cost ... but might be worth it at this point.
And now that i'm looking at the our Win 2003 server it seems that the TCC install removes all access to the desktop so I can't even install a second TMS as is.
Lol .... why must this all be so difficult ?

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

GDC TMS also runs great under Windblows 10. It's a bit different at first to get it going. Have done three now and zero issues with it or updating. No doubt it will also work ok under Windblows 11. So if you need to have a OS that still updates, 10 has updated fine in the one place they wanted it left on. Will be doing a 4th one in the next couple weeks...

[Steve Guttag]

Armand...you shouldn't be making ANY shows...the TCC does that on its own. There is nothing to copy. Just import your POS' schedule output. All you need to worry about from week to week are the ads and trailers and those can be extended/massaged each week. If you find that you are building shows up, then you are doing it wrong. The TCC builds its own shows based on the templates.

[Armand Daiguillon]

Armand...you shouldn't be making ANY shows...the TCC does that on its own. There is nothing to copy. Just import your POS' schedule output. All you need to worry about from week to week are the ads and trailers and those can be extended/massaged each week. If you find that you are building shows up, then you are doing it wrong. The TCC builds its own shows based on the templates.

That could be part of the issue, when I was shown how to use it they were using a pos that did not link in any way to TCC. Perhaps with the new pos it might not be so bad ..... (will be using rts)

[Steve Guttag]

RTS can absolutely export its schedule to the TCC (I have several sites doing that). In the meantime, if you can get the existing or new pos to export its file...you can sneaker-net it to the TCC and just ingest the schedule that way
Screen Shot 2022-08-12 at 9.23.21 AM.png

Selecting that will open up a browse box.

I really think that your fight with the TCC all boils down to getting it set up properly to your needs and getting the integration set up. Once done, it really will save you time and effort. The less manual stuff you do with it, the better.