Covid restrictions over (for us)

[Mark Lane]

When the pandemic started we understood the need to error on the side of caution but once the dust started to settle we repeatedly asked for the science.
We where order to close for the safety of the public but we continued to keep the concession stand open. When we where reported to the health department, we said we would close if the science showed selling popcorn was more dangerous to the public than Starbucks selling coffee. Food service was allowed so we keep the concession stand open.
We keep asking for the science and came up with ideas that would keep the theater safe, as safe or safer than standing in line at a Walmart. Our state (Michigan) would bounce our request for the science from department to department only to finally to get a reply that said the science was based on science and no additional information was provided. We questioned how the bar across the street could safely allow customers to drink beer, eat wings and watch ESPN but dangerous for us to allow customers to drink soft drinks, eat popcorn and watch a movie… and we were vocal about it.

We where always within the orders, but we opened to small crowds. Another theater warned us that the state turned them into the studio asking the studio to stop the theater from paying their movie.. I did not put much credit into this report but two days later I got an email from the studio asking if our state allowed us to pay the movie.. I had to show them the orders that said small groups of 10 people or less was allowed and we where only showing their movie to crowds of 10 or less… the studio continued to allow us to show their movies.
We would ask for the science and when it was not provided, we continued on… working within the written rules of the orders.

The day the state allowed theater to start showing movies again. The health department came in and shut us down. Someone must have done some research because they found that the water well was hand dug in the 70s or 80s without a permit. The health department was not concern about the water quality but they did not like the location of the water well and shut us down. They legally found a way to shut us down, for a while. We put in a new well and brought everything up to code and reopened.
We where told in writing that the health department honors a grandfather clause so I spent two weeks putting together a case to show we where grandfathered into some of the new codes.. only then to be told the health department said they do not honor grandfather clauses and the previous written statement was a mistake. I feel the issues with the location of the well was our punishment for questioning the government and for asking for the science. We where down for two weeks while I researched the grandfather clause and putting together a case that we where grandfathered in.. eight weeks to do upgrades and put in a new water well at a time when we here not bring in much money.
Is it any wonder people question and don’t trust their government?

[Frank Cox]

I've always followed every health restriction ordered absolutely to the letter and sometimes gone the extra mile past what's absolutely required. Because I don't want to kill anybody or make anybody sick.

I don't want anyone pointing to my theatre and saying "It's his fault."

Looking for loopholes and jumping up and down screaming about measures that are intended for your protection and for the protection of yourself and your employees and your customers seems counter-productive. Aside from any moral issues, what about liability when someone sues you for catching a disease at your theatre and your defense is, "Well, we just kind of weaseled in here."

No. Just no. That's an irresponsible approach. Is selling that bucket of popcorn really more important than the safety of your customers and your community?

[Marcel Birgelen]

It's pretty common that science doesn't have the answer. Especially, when this whole thing was new, science did have very few answers, but that's how science works. Not having an answer at all, is a valid result...

But in this case, it was about life and death for many people, so we needed some "best guesses" and we needed them fast. The only thing left then is to fall back on knowledge acquired in the past and try to apply this to the current situation as faithful as possible. Interpretations, even between scientists will vary if they have to speculate. Politics executed in bad faith will cherry-pick from those statements and will base their arguments and "policy" around those. But even if executed in good faith, inconsistencies are bound to happen. Politicians aren't scientists, but they need to make decisions. This often leads to arbitrary lines drawn in the sand, like maximum capacity allowances or (partial) closures of certain aspects of certain businesses.

[Bobby Henderson]

It's pretty common that science doesn't have the answer.

The doctors and scientists certainly haven't batted .1000 during the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic, especially in the early days. After a full year and half the science on this topic is a hell of a lot more clear than the bile coming out of the mouths of lawmakers, media personalities out to make a buck and armchair quarterbacks on social media.

Here in Oklahoma we're going backwards fast. The COVID-19 case numbers in my town are back to where they were at the end of February. Our two hospitals are filling fast with COVID-19 patients. They're already having to re-direct other patients elsewhere, even some emergency cases. Some businesses are going to require face masks for all customers, vaccinated or not. In some respects, particularly as it pertains to newly infected adults, I don't have any sympathy. This new surge was preventable. Nearly all the people getting infected and hospitalized now deliberately chose not to get vaccinated. They knew what could happen and took the chance anyway.

I have a few co-workers who have refused to get vaccinated. If they get infected and hospitalized with COVID-19 that's going to be 100% their fault. My boss gave $150 bonuses to employees who have been vaccinated as a way to change some minds. If one of us vaccinated people gets stuck at home with a breakthrough infection it won't count against our sick leave or vacation. But the ones who still refuse to get vaccinated won't get a break. If they're stuck at home (or in the hospital) with COVID-19 they'll burn up sick leave and vacation time. If that runs out they're shit out of luck.

The scientists and doctors don't deserve any blame for the infections happening now. What makes me particularly angry is the folks who refuse to get vaccinated refuse to take any other precautions either. Which is why our case loads of Delta are now spiking. These reckless people aren't just infecting other adults. They're infecting kids too. Not all children are invincible to the SARS-CoV-2 virus. Kids under age 12 in the US still aren't eligible to get vaccinated. So all these anti-vax adults out there are putting a bunch of children at risk. It's selfish as hell.

[Mike Blakesley]

Supposedly the FDA is about to give full approval to at least one of the vaccines, if not more. Hopefully that will sway a few more people to get it.

I have a couple of friends, one of whom is a paramedic, who have "decided" not to get the vaccine. My paramedic friend says he's around sick people all the time, including Covid patients, and he has yet to get sick, so he figures he's immune. (Possible, I guess?) On top of that, his daughter (age 14) got Covid, and the family quarantined at home for the two weeks while she recovered (only mild symptoms), but Mom and Dad made no effort to distance themselves from the daughter -- but Mom and Dad didn't get sick, despite neither of them being vaccinated.

Another friend is an EMT who is just one of those people who think the whole thing happened too fast and not enough is known about it, etc etc. so she's "no way" going to get the shot.

And I have one other friend, a girl who used to work here, who is now an R.N. at the biggest hospital in Montana She said she is fully vaccinated, but now wishes she hadn't gotten it, for whatever reason. She's sure the whole thing is a Chinese plot.

In New York they're talking about vax passports required for everyday activities like restaurants, movies, etc. but guess what the biggest group of unvaxed people is? The Blacks! So the anti-vas people are saying these new rules are racist against the Blacks.

This thing is going to turn into an even bigger mess than it was before, which I didn't think was possible, but here we go.

[Leo Enticknap]

The entire political class and media establishment is now gearing up to demonize the vaccine-hesitant, and the self-styled "not mainstream" media (Breitbart, Newsmax, etc.) is now in full-scale counterattack. Our elected representatives, of both colors, have now built up an 18-month track record of making poor decisions that have both exacerbated the scale of the public health crisis (e.g. forcing recovering covid patients back into nursing homes) and exacerbated the scale of the economic damage (e.g. statewide emergency orders in Michigan, forcing Houghton and Petoskey into the same lockdown regime as Detroit and Flint, and wildly inaccurate claims from senior politicians both for and against the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for symptomatic covid).

So it's now hardly surprising that we have a significant proportion of the population remaining who simply do not trust anything the politicians tell them, and are basing their decision making primarily on personal experience, e.g. Mike's paramedic friend and his family, and/or the minority media pitching arguments to them that speak to their mistrust of elected officials. As I opined earlier, the scary thing about wack jobs such as David Icke, Kate Shemirani, Alex Jones, and Andrew Wakefield is that literally millions take them seriously. In their supporters' world view, I'm the wack job.

As long as reasonable legal protections remain in place for those who decline vaccination on account of legitimate, documented medical counterindications (i.e. such individuals cannot be fired), the best thing now is for the politicians to shut up, stop regulating, get out of the way, and let businesses and communities take it from here. Bobby's boss is one example, saying in effect that if any of his workers refuse to be vaxxed without good reason and then get ill, that's their choice, but that he will not pick up the financial tab for that choice. That sort of thing stands a better chance of persuading the hold-outs than hectoring and threats from the political class.

[Marcel Birgelen]

When in doubt, listen to the scientists, not the politicians. Many politicians are like evil priests, preaching the gospel-of-the-day, which is more or less carefully adjusted to their political agenda. Not all of them are actually evil, but many of them are incompetent, the end-result is roughly the same though... The road to hell is paved with good intentions...

Can't scientists be biassed? Sure they can and some are, but practically all scientists agree about the importance of large parts of the population getting vaccinated. This should be enough to cancel out any real bias. Sure, if you have certain conditions, you should contact your doctor or relevant physicians first before getting in line, but otherwise, the only way to get back on track with our lives is to get rid of this virus once and for all.

Once the virus is gone, there are no reasons left for politicians to come up with arbitrary rules of how we have to live our lives. Even controversial stuff like COVID passports/certificates won't be an issue anymore.

So, listen to the people who do have a clue, the people that do this for a living: Scientists and doctors, not those who have a vested interest in making you part of or keeping you in their political cult. Because that's how it increasingly is starting to look: Like cults battling for members. God or whatever you believe in or not, gave you a brain: use it.

And I have one other friend, a girl who used to work here, who is now an R.N. at the biggest hospital in Montana She said she is fully vaccinated, but now wishes she hadn't gotten it, for whatever reason. She's sure the whole thing is a Chinese plot.

Even if it is a "Chinese plot", that doesn't make the virus go away, it's still out there.

And about this whole thing being a Chinese plot: We may never know if this thing escaped from a lab or came from some animal. Wuhan seems to be "ground zero" nevertheless. Even if this thing escaped from a lab, this being some kind of Chinese plot doesn't pass muster. While the Chinese are known to be rather reckless when it comes to the well being of their own population, unleashing a virus with unknown deadly potential on your own population in the hopes that it spreads around the globe just doesn't make any sense at all. If we know one thing about the Chinese government, it is that they want to be in control. This whole COVID-19 thing has been the opposite of that.

[James Biggins]

Once the virus is gone...

Like the influenza and common cold viruses are now gone?

[Marcel Birgelen]

Like the influenza and common cold viruses are now gone?

We've had literally hundreds of years to adapt to those viruses, so most people carry some natural immunity for those viruses. Still, a lot of people die, especially from influenza, every year. Most scientist seem to agree that we really should try to eradicate the virus, much like we did with smallpox and other diseases, in order to avoid constant mutations. The thing is: We seem to have the tools in hand to do so, it's merely a fight against time...

[Carsten Kurz]

Everything is tackled with a nice decision-chart - wait, something is missing...hmm...

the way to freedom.jpg

[Steve Guttag]

The problem of the "listen to the scientists" approach is, at least in the USA, is that they are under the control or under the thumb of politicians or worse, shareholders. They can say truthful yet misleading things depending on what the board of directors or administration wants out there. At present, again, in the USA, the indoor masking mandates going around are based on CDC recommendations. What the CDC is short on is what percentage of vaccinated people are getting actually infected by the Delta variant. And of those people, what percentage of the vaccinated then cause another vaccinated person to become infected? Instead, they go with a relationship number like "4-times as many people tested positive" (just as an example, not saying that was the ratio). 4-times can mean we went from 1 to 4 or 100 to 400. It can go from insignificant to insignificant and still be 4-times. Testing positive does not necessarily mean infected. The test I've had (the nasty swab up the nose), tells you if it is up your nose...not in your body so you will be a "case" but not necessarily infected or doing any transmitting.

Relationship ratios without real numbers are just about meaningless but that is what they put out to justify masking mandates. Again, I'm mostly interested in vaccinated interacting with vaccinated. From what I can gather, of those hospitalized with C19 and Delta...the ratio is on the order of 99.5% are unvaccinated. That is where our problem is. When a broad stroke of all people must mask, it absolutely puts a damper on industry, economy, which ultimately causes harm too.

So, trust the scientists...sure...but give us some real numbers please. Back up your recommendations with likelihood of contracting and spreading the virus if you are vaccinated and are interacting with people that are not and with people that are. Then people can make informed decisions rather than "It's x-ratio higher than it was."

[Leo Enticknap]

We're more likely talking about a Chinese accident than a Chinese plot, but once again, the fact that discussion around that has become so politically polarized has fueled mistrust of politicians, and the desire to place the blame for this on someone or something.

Agreed with James on "Once the virus is gone...": the problem is that the politicians will likely be unable to agree on a definition of "gone." If that definition is that it is reduced to a threat level to public health equivalent to others that we're prepared to tolerate, then a case could be made that it is already gone. Per the CDC's own figures, covid is now hospitalizing and killing far fewer vaccinated individuals than road accidents. The public is unwilling to accept, and the politicians are unwilling to impose, any more road accident mitigation measures than are in place already (so much so that California is resisting calls to trial a breathalyzer that would detect marijuana, because the state's lawmakers fear that large numbers of marijuana DUI arrests would be electorally unpopular, regardless of how much death, injury, and economic damage they might prevent).

Which brings us back to the anti-vaxxers...

[Carsten Kurz]

It will simply take time. When everyone has agreed that the decreased number of hospitalisations and deaths do no longer justify limitations of freedom and economy, it will settle down by itself. While the current vaccines do not solve the issue of high infection rates, they sure do help to calm the Pandemic down. We were probably too optimistic to expect that the vaccines would solve the issue immediately. It will probably take until next spring before we are back to something we would call 'normal'.
I don't think we will see more lockdowns in those countries with a decent vaccination rate.

[Frank Cox]

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts...ned-in-canada/

The release of “Clifford the Big Red Dog” has been postponed in Canada and distributors say the family adventure will also no longer screen at the Toronto International Film Festival.

The announcement from eOne comes less than a week after Paramount said it’s postponing the release of “Clifford” in the United States amid concerns about the COVID-19 Delta variant.

The Walt Becker-directed comedy was originally set to hit theatres across Canada on Sept. 17, the same day as the U.S. release.

I wonder if this is the first domino and the movie companies don't all start pushing the new releases off into the distant unknown again. Been there, done that.

[Martin McCaffery]

No Time To Die will never get released