Five screen channel list - help needed

[Martin Brooks]

@ Stefan:


thanks for the info; I got this list about Cinerama; where all 7-tracks?

There's a difference between tracks and audio channels.

It's my understanding that the early 3-strip Cinerama films were intended to have 6 audio tracks with the 7th track using tones to steer the surrounds, similar to what Perspecta did a few years later for the screen speakers, but they couldn't get it working and they actually had a mixer in the studio steering the surrounds according to a script. Eventually, they put a mono fold down on the 7th track.
I've never heard of 8-channel Cinerama films. Can anyone with definite knowledge confirm whether there were any and what the layout was? And if there were, did they keep changing the heads on the 35mm mag reader depending upon whether it was 7 tracks or 8 tracks?

[Allan Young]

There's a difference between tracks and audio channels.

Indeed, as I pointed out to the OP upthread in an attempt to avoid confusion. Every Cinerama/Cinemiracle three-strip title had 7 audio tracks. All of the documentary features were screened with a sound engineer manually steering the two surround tracks. Tracks six and seven were either used for left/right surround or the sixth track was sent to both right and left surrounds with track seven feeding the back surround. Hence eight audio "channels".

Eventually, they put a mono fold down on the 7th track.

I don't think this is correct. The later narrative three-strip titles did away with the surround steering and settled on only having right and left surround channels from tracks six and seven.

[Martin Brooks]

Indeed, as I pointed out to the OP upthread in an attempt to avoid confusion. Every Cinerama/Cinemiracle three-strip title had 7 audio tracks. All of the documentary features were screened with a sound engineer manually steering the two surround tracks. Tracks six and seven were either used for left/right surround or the sixth track was sent to both right and left surrounds with track seven feeding the back surround. Hence eight audio "channels".


I don't think this is correct. The later narrative three-strip titles did away with the surround steering and settled on only having right and left surround channels from tracks six and seven.

I went back through my old notes and found some conflicting info, but the 2nd set sort of confirms what you wrote. I believe that both of these came from the "A Century of Sound" Blu-ray set which covers 1933-1975 that was put out by UCLA and presented by Robert Gift. (There's also a DVD set that covers 1876-1932).
I'll have to go back and watch it again to confirm, but I believe he said for the premiere of Cinerama in 1952 that Track 7 contained control signals that failed to work reliably and was phased out before release. Instead, they put a mono fold-down on track 7.

But when he gets to 1954, he says that Cinerama sound was "improved" and that there were 7 discrete channels on 7 mag tracks, 47 millimeters wide. Tracks 6 and 7 could potentially provide stereo surround and that a sound control operator was still present to switch from sides to rear, but he wasn't specific about which films did have stereo surround and I don't believe he ever mentioned that there could have been two configurations: left/right surround or mono left-right surround + rear surround as you've indicated.

[Allan Young]

I went back through my old notes and found some conflicting info, but the 2nd set sort of confirms what you wrote. I believe that both of these came from the "A Century of Sound" Blu-ray set which covers 1933-1975 that was put out by UCLA and presented by Robert Gift. (There's also a DVD set that covers 1876-1932).
I'll have to go back and watch it again to confirm, but I believe he said for the premiere of Cinerama in 1952 that Track 7 contained control signals that failed to work reliably and was phased out before release. Instead, they put a mono fold-down on track 7.

I'd appreciate it if you could check it out, as I'd be interested in what was said on the Blu-Ray. If this was indeed the case there must have been three iterations of the This is Cinerama soundtrack--control signal on track seven, mono on track seven and finally stereo surrounds. The new print which was specially struck for the Bradford Media Museum definitely has stereo surrounds.

But when he gets to 1954, he says that Cinerama sound was "improved" and that there were 7 discrete channels on 7 mag tracks, 47 millimeters wide. Tracks 6 and 7 could potentially provide stereo surround and that a sound control operator was still present to switch from sides to rear, but he wasn't specific about which films did have stereo surround and I don't believe he ever mentioned that there could have been two configurations: left/right surround or mono left-right surround + rear surround as you've indicated.

The "two configurations", i.e. the manual steering of the surround tracks, were used for all the travelogues and all of them had stereo surround, with the possible exception of the early mono-on-track-seven configuration you mentioned. The sound engineer's control settings sheet for Search fo Paradise is reproduced in Carr and Hayes' Wide Screen Movies book and it has three columns for "Speaker 7" (OPEN/OFF), "Speaker 8" (OPEN/OFF) and "6 - 6 & 7 7-8" (RIGHT/LEFT - referring to the rotary dial which chose one of the two configurations). Confusingly (it's a book riddled with errors) they also mention a Perspecta-style control tone on track seven, but this seems unlikely. If the sound steering could be automated in this way, why would the cinemas go to the expense of hiring a sound engineer?

(Minor point, but I think you may be mistaken on the 47mm width of the tracks, which were on 35mm mag fullcoat.)

[Martin Brooks]

I'd appreciate it if you could check it out, as I'd be interested in what was said on the Blu-Ray. If this was indeed the case there must have been three iterations of the This is Cinerama soundtrack--control signal on track seven, mono on track seven and finally stereo surrounds. The new print which was specially struck for the Bradford Media Museum definitely has stereo surrounds.


The "two configurations", i.e. the manual steering of the surround tracks, were used for all the travelogues and all of them had stereo surround, with the possible exception of the early mono-on-track-seven configuration you mentioned. The sound engineer's control settings sheet for Search fo Paradise is reproduced in Carr and Hayes' Wide Screen Movies book and it has three columns for "Speaker 7" (OPEN/OFF), "Speaker 8" (OPEN/OFF) and "6 - 6 & 7 7-8" (RIGHT/LEFT - referring to the rotary dial which chose one of the two configurations). Confusingly (it's a book riddled with errors) they also mention a Perspecta-style control tone on track seven, but this seems unlikely. If the sound steering could be automated in this way, why would the cinemas go to the expense of hiring a sound engineer?

(Minor point, but I think you may be mistaken on the 47mm width of the tracks, which were on 35mm mag fullcoat.)

I went back to re-watch the video. One thing I had forgotten was that during the intermission for This Is Cinerama, Lowell Thomas gave a filmed demonstration of “stereophonic sound” with an image of 6 VU meters – 5 stage channels + 1 (obviously mono) surround channel. I don’t remember that in the showing of that film at the Museum of Modern Art some years ago after the Blu-ray was released. Not sure if they showed a Blu-ray or a DCP, but I suspect it was the Blu-ray.

I have the Carr & Hayes book. I can't say I understand that cue sheet. I wish I could find a photo and/or description of that switch. And yes, they wanted to believe there was Perspecta everywhere because for reasons unkown, they loved Perspecta.

These are the relevant portions of the UCLA Blu-ray history of movie sound in regards to Cinerama, almost verbatim:
“All six channels of audio were recorded side-by-side on 35mm magnetic film…..Monophonic sound effects on track 6 were sent to Altec 629 direct radiator speakers….initially there were only three surround speakers, but many more of these would soon be installed to provide better coverage.

“To create better directional effects, it was planned that selected sounds should be able to move from one set of surround speakers to another if desired. To accomplish this, Hazard Reeves added another track…this was track 7 and it was supposed to contain special control signals automatically moving sounds around the auditorium. Apparently, the control tones failed to work reliably in early tests and so the automated system was phased out around the time of Cinerama’s public debut. Track 7 was then reconfigured to contain a mono mix…Despite this alteration, a description of the now abandoned control tone system continued to appear in Cinerama program booklets over the next several years.

“To make up for the loss of automation, a sound control engineer was required to be on duty during Cinerama shows, making manual volume and switching adjustments to move sound among the surround speakers.

“And then, in 1954, while This Is Cinerama continued to play in New York and other cities, the original 6-channel recording system was replaced with an even better format, now featuring seven discrete channels recorded on 7 magnetic tracks, each 47 mills wide (a mill is 1/1000^th of an inch, so 47 mills = 1.1938 millimeters, but that doesn’t sound right to me either because 7 x 47 mills = 329 mills = 8.3566mm and we know the 7 tracks took up almost the full width of 35mm film minus the sprocket hole area).

“The track width and layout were now uniform system-wide and standardized for all future Cinerama productions….tracks 6 and 7 were now capable of providing genuine left and right stereophonic surround sound, if desired. The sound control operator continued to be present at all shows to handle special situations, such as manually switching to the rear auditorium loudspeakers. “

He also said that 24fps began with “The Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm” but my notes show that Holiday in Spain and Lafayette were also 24fps.

[Allan Young]

Fascinating, many thanks for that.

Purely guesswork here, but as This is Cinerama was definitely recorded with seven-track sound, presumably the original intention was for that to be recreated in cinemas. Perhaps they got cold feet over the reliability of the system and produced a mix which folded down the two surround tracks into one and added the mono track as a backup.

[Bill Ryan]

The original real ease of This is Cinerama was indeed on 6 track sound in New York but some time later all other installations used 7 track off mag full coat. The early 6 track clusters had the heads staggered (not good for phasing) the theatres after The New York install all had 8 auditorium channels. Cinerama was actually the
first to come up with the 5 across the front system. In all the Cinerama sound tracks I have none have a control track or perspecta it wasn’t invented in that era. None that I have have a mono backup track either, the only use of that I believe was on the baker panel of Cinemiricale prints that had a mono backup track played back through a penthouse reader.
Cheers ,
Bill.