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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Cyan Dye Track Experiences with "Anything Else" (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Cyan Dye Track Experiences with "Anything Else"
John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 09-06-2003 09:22 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As most everyone knows, the Dreamworks 35mm prints of Woody Allen's film "Anything Else" all have the new Cyan Dye Tracks for analog sound. As with most recent Woody Allen films, the mix is mono, but does have SRD, SDDS and DTS digital tracks as well:

http://www.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001044

Even if you normally play digital sound, please play and listen to the entire analog track at least once, and post your subjective impression of the analog sound quality (compared to conventional analog tracks) here. Please also post details of the red light analog sound reader you are using, and what sound processor / noise reduction system you are using.

For those still using old tungsten exciter lamp readers, try playing the analog Cyan Dye Track and describe the sound quality, which will have a low level and be quite noisy on a white light reader.

http://www.dyetracks.org

(Please keep discussion on this thread to first-hand experiences with Cyan Dye Tracks on the film "Anything Else". Other discussion should be posted on the other threads discussing Cyan Dye Tracks).

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Stephen Furley
Film God

Posts: 2885
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002


 - posted 09-06-2003 10:35 AM      Profile for Stephen Furley   Email Stephen Furley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John, do you know if the cyan tracks will be used only on the American prints of this title, or also on those in other countries? Also, does the trailer for this film have a cyan track?

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Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!

Posts: 3061
From: Rockwall TX USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 09-06-2003 11:20 AM      Profile for Aaron Sisemore   Email Aaron Sisemore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
All the trailers I have seen for this are standard high-magenta silver/dye tracks.

-Aaron

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 9592
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 09-06-2003 11:02 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ironically, the trailer of Anything Else we have been playing is not only not cyan but it isn't high-magenta either...is good old fashioned conventional cyan+magenta applicated track. Are you sure Aaron about your high-magenta tracks?

Steve

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12641
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 09-06-2003 11:20 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm sure this has been covered before, but I have a hard time being interested in anything cyan-dye related. But I noticed that the Dolby Digital track (I refuse to call it SRD because the 'SR' is not actually in the digital portion of the track) is also cyan. What happens if you have a Cat 699 or Cat 700 reader? Will it play OK or will you be required to upgrade the reader?

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Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!

Posts: 3061
From: Rockwall TX USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 09-07-2003 03:23 AM      Profile for Aaron Sisemore   Email Aaron Sisemore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve: My bad- I shouldnt have said 'High Mgenta'.

Joe: I asked this question at the NATO Dolby training seminar. According to Dolby, the SRD tracks have been all-dye (silverless) since the beginning (excepting B/W and IB receiver stocks of course).

-Aaron

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 9592
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 09-07-2003 12:19 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Joe, to make it more clear...no, you will NOT have to upgrade any Dolby Digital reader for the sake of Cyan tracks...unless you have an IR system basement reader where they used the light-pipe system...then you will have to downgrade from the EPT lamp to the LED based basement reader.

This has to do with the need for better heat sinking when using the visible red LED for analog and nothing to do with the digital reader aspects.

All the digital reader is trying to do is differentiate between a clear or opaque bit (on DRAS...it is the dual camel hump Histogram portion that lets you see what it is trying to do). Unlike analog where we desire good dynamic range, all the digital portion has to do is to decide if it crosses one threshold so application for better contrast was never required.

Steve

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Bill Gabel
Film God

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From: Technicolor NYC, NY, USA
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 09-08-2003 08:19 AM      Profile for Bill Gabel   Email Bill Gabel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Technicolor has made a few High-Magenta prints of this title. Not all prints are Cyan. I have three High-Magenta prints and one Cyan print in my booth right now.

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Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!

Posts: 3061
From: Rockwall TX USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 09-08-2003 10:37 AM      Profile for Aaron Sisemore   Email Aaron Sisemore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Once again, the industry tells us one thing and does another. (Unless the HM prints were struck especially for Bill's situation).

-Aaron

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John Hawkinson
Film God

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From: Cambridge, MA, USA
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 - posted 09-08-2003 10:56 AM      Profile for John Hawkinson   Author's Homepage   Email John Hawkinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey Bill, are those HM prints release prints from dupe negs?

--jhawk

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Bill Gabel
Film God

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From: Technicolor NYC, NY, USA
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 09-08-2003 12:49 PM      Profile for Bill Gabel   Email Bill Gabel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No they are EK Show Prints.

We handle screenings for Woody Allen here in NYC.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 09-08-2003 01:19 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Stephen Furley asked:

quote:
John, do you know if the cyan tracks will be used only on the American prints of this title, or also on those in other countries? Also, does the trailer for this film have a cyan track?

AFAIK, all RELEASE prints worldwide will have Cyan Dye analog tracks. At least two sound negatives optimized for cyan dye track printing were made, and only one sound negative optimized for high magenta (for direct prints).

Trailers do not have cyan dye tracks.

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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 3790
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 09-08-2003 07:25 PM      Profile for Steve Kraus         Edit/Delete Post 
I thought each track is printed by a separate light source. So why would the SR•D digital track be cyan as well? Why not leave it as dye-only (unapplicated) black? If it aint broke...

Of course that applies to the entirety of this conversion but there is another thread for that.

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Torsten Jasper
Film Handler

Posts: 15
From: Braunschweig, Niedersachsen, Germany
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted 09-08-2003 07:41 PM      Profile for Torsten Jasper     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
John wrote:
Trailers do not have cyan dye tracks.

Are you shure,
I remember we have some in Germany.
Greetings...
T. J.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 7328
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 09-08-2003 08:22 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bill--have you noticed any sound quality differences between the high-magenta and cyan tracks? Could we convince you to take two of the same reel (one cyan, one high-magenta) and run one on each machine and make random changeovers throughout to evaluate the sound quality? (I am assuming that your screening room uses red LED readers.)

Why would the non-cyan prints be high-magenta, anyway? Since the cyan prints will play in venues which are equipped with red LED soundheads, wouldn't it make sense to optimize the non-cyan prints for exciter lamp playback (i.e. silver track)?

I've occasionally had the good fortune to handle EK prints/showprints/answer prints; will these eventually have dye tracks, too, or will they always have silver/high-magenta tracks?

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