Film-Tech Cinema Systems
  Home     Products     Store     Forum     Warehouse     Contact Us    
Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE
Topic Closed  Topic Closed


  
my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Hey you, you suck! (AKA: Outing bad film handlers) (Page 50)

 
This topic comprises 100 pages: 1  2  3  ...  47  48  49  50  51  52  53  ...  98  99  100   
Author Topic: Hey you, you suck! (AKA: Outing bad film handlers)
Barry Martin
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 203
From: Newington, CT USA
Registered: Jul 2002

- posted 09-25-2004 01:51 AM      Profile for Barry Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Barry Martin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: John T. Hendrickson, Jr
And, yes, you left two reference frames on most of the heads and tails.
Can anyone explain why this is to me? Granted, the Loews I was trained at brought me up on removing one frame for reference, so I can understand that as a bad habit that just keeps coming because people aren't told it's wrong. But what in common sense says you NEED more than one frame of reference? I've been cutting leaving no frame on the head or tail because I know I can always look up the reel ID here. Our copy of Maria Full of Grace from Manchester (either NY or VT, not sure which) had not only 2 reference frames cut but at random reels 3 frames were cut! Half of the reels I had to remove the first frame as the white splicing tape would not peel off at all.

The only good thing is, with the exception of reel changes, it lacks scratches and dirt. [thumbsup]

Also, has anyone seen a cue square placed in the middle of the frame and then a layer of splicing tape applied over the cue? Glad I ran the beginning of the credits through slowly or I would never have caught it.

 |  IP: Logged
Jack Ondracek
Film God

Posts: 2348
From: Port Orchard, WA, USA
Registered: Oct 2002

- posted 09-25-2004 01:55 AM      Profile for Jack Ondracek   Author's Homepage   Email Jack Ondracek   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Barry Martin
I've been cutting leaving no frame on the head or tail because I know I can always look up the reel ID here.
You shouldn't do that, Barry. Not everyone knows about FT, nor should the next guy be forced to look up the references here because you cut the leaders too short.

Just leave one frame... that's all anyone needs.

 |  IP: Logged
Wolff King Morrow
Master Film Handler

Posts: 490
From: Denton, TX, USA
Registered: Feb 2004

- posted 09-25-2004 02:28 AM      Profile for Wolff King Morrow   Author's Homepage   Email Wolff King Morrow   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've been thinking about reel ID improvements labs could make so we wouldn't have to leave ID frames. Perhaps a code printed in between the sprocket holes on the side opposite the soundtrack on the last frame of action.

For example:

Reel 6's last frame would have "T6" printed in between each sprocket hole, and the LFOA marker would have "T6" listed below it. Now you can chop the last frame and still match it up to the proper tail as normal later on.

 |  IP: Logged
John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

- posted 09-25-2004 10:42 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Wolff King Morrow
Perhaps a code printed in between the sprocket holes on the side opposite the soundtrack on the last frame of action.
There is a project being coordinated by the Inter-Society Committee for the Enhancement of Cinema Presentation to do exactly that. At the last meeting, Technicolor reported progress on developing the technology to print reel ID between the perfs on the side opposite the Dolby Digital area.

For now, you can also match the film manufacturer's magenta ID that is printed along the edge of the film --- almost always, the leader and the corresponding picture will be printed on the same roll of raw stock, and therefore have the same ID number:

-

 |  IP: Logged
Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000

- posted 09-25-2004 04:56 PM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
An easily readable ID would be a great blessing.

My advocacy of leaving an ID frame with the leader (1 only and no new cuts please) is that except for fadeout/fadein leaders OR an ineptly edited film where the end frame is unique, a mismatch will jump out at you. The other methods of ID'ing a reel one would probably invoke only if one suspects a problem. Simply being presented with a no-ID-frame, previously-built print is probably not cause for most people to start analyzing edge codes, soundtrack modulation, or getting online with F-T, good as these methods may be. Chances are the show runs as leadered and if it's wrong it's wrong.

So kudos to printed reel ID info and this whole business can finally be laid to rest.

 |  IP: Logged
Daryl C. W. O'Shea
Film God

Posts: 3977
From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from)
Registered: Jun 2002

- posted 09-25-2004 05:22 PM      Profile for Daryl C. W. O'Shea   Author's Homepage   Email Daryl C. W. O'Shea   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hopefully if they've gone to this effort, they've designed it to be perf accurate and can mark one of the perfs "cut here" with an arrow or whatever.

If they're going to dumb it down, they might as well go all the way.

 |  IP: Logged
Brian Michael Weidemann
Expert cat molester

Posts: 944
From: Costa Mesa, CA United States
Registered: Feb 2004

- posted 09-25-2004 05:59 PM      Profile for Brian Michael Weidemann   Author's Homepage   Email Brian Michael Weidemann   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
One could say that DKP70mm had dumbed it down a long time ago for IMAX operators. It doesn't get much clearer.

-

Of course, reel ID is not really an issue, since prints are not (usually?) broken down to cores once assembled.

 |  IP: Logged
Daryl C. W. O'Shea
Film God

Posts: 3977
From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from)
Registered: Jun 2002

- posted 09-25-2004 06:01 PM      Profile for Daryl C. W. O'Shea   Author's Homepage   Email Daryl C. W. O'Shea   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Out of curiosity, do they do that to reels that might be at a changeover (on some setups) on longer features?

 |  IP: Logged
Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3686
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000

- posted 09-25-2004 06:08 PM      Profile for Adam Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Martin       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes. While the changeover on the SR is frame-accurate, a tail leader with black inserted after the last frame on the first half of the feature to allow the dowser to close. The head leader on the second half has black preceeding the first frame to allow the dowser to open. There are a few seconds where both dowsers are open at the same time.

 |  IP: Logged
Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000

- posted 09-25-2004 06:23 PM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Frameline markings would be a useful added feature but it depends on how this is implemented: Something printed onto the dupe picture negative? Something added to the track negative? Or some sort of direct exposure electronic device added to the printer? The latter two would only be frameline accurate if great care is taken in threading the printer.

 |  IP: Logged
Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

- posted 09-25-2004 06:40 PM      Profile for Dustin Mitchell   Email Dustin Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't see why all 35mm prints can't have the 'LFOA' marking some do.

 |  IP: Logged
John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

- posted 09-25-2004 06:45 PM      Profile for John Hawkinson   Email John Hawkinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Some people dislike LFOA markings. Principally because a sloppy changeover can show them on-screen, which is worse than black. Probably secondarily because it reflects a change from "How things have always been done."

Maybe the compromise is this text:

"LFOA.
Cut no more than ONE reference frame."

Personally, I have no strong opinion, though it does seem like the LOFA marking could be outboard of the perfs to allow the picture to still be black.

--jhawk

 |  IP: Logged
Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

- posted 09-25-2004 06:50 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
What is needed is an obvious clear frameline seperating the last frame of picture from the leader, both head and tail. That makes it easy for the lazy platter people and the sloppy changeover guys. [Razz]

 |  IP: Logged
Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3686
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000

- posted 09-25-2004 06:57 PM      Profile for Adam Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Martin       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: John Hawkinson
a sloppy changeover can show them on-screen
Lame excuse.

quote: John Hawkinson
it reflects a change from "How things have always been done."
Even lamer excuse.

 |  IP: Logged
Wolff King Morrow
Master Film Handler

Posts: 490
From: Denton, TX, USA
Registered: Feb 2004

- posted 09-25-2004 08:06 PM      Profile for Wolff King Morrow   Author's Homepage   Email Wolff King Morrow   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Brad Miller
What is needed is an obvious clear frameline seperating the last frame of picture from the leader, both head and tail. That makes it easy for the lazy platter people and the sloppy changeover guys.
The frameline is not my concern, but rather having a code like I mentioned so that heads and tails can be identified without dropping frames. The analog sound track will look so much cleaner than some I've seen with large differences in wave-length sizes just from dropping the 2 frames in between each reel.

 |  IP: Logged


All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
This topic comprises 100 pages: 1  2  3  ...  47  48  49  50  51  52  53  ...  98  99  100   
   Open Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
- Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.

© 1999-2020 Film-Tech Cinema Systems, LLC. All rights reserved.