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Author Topic: Depressurizing a Xenon Bulb
Bill Enos
Film God

Posts: 2081
From: Richmond, Virginia, USA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 07-24-2002 08:20 AM      Profile for Bill Enos   Email Bill Enos   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is there a practical, reasonably safe way to depressurize a decommissioned bulb? Otherwise, are demo bulbs available? I had considered wrapping a dead bulb in several layers of a quilted moving pad and drilling into one of the metal ends. Somebody is bound to have tried something. Any suggestions?

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Paul Konen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 981
From: Frisco, TX. (North of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-24-2002 08:51 AM      Profile for Paul Konen   Email Paul Konen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Do what most of us do and that is keep it in it's protective shell, tape the box closed and then accelerate it to the floor. This will cause it to explode before disposing it's contents in the dumpster.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 07-24-2002 09:14 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Some lamp vendors are willing to supply depressurized "duds" for demo purposes, especially for theatres using the larger sizes (e.g., IMAX theatres) that have booth "show and tells".

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Jeff Taylor
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 601
From: Chatham, NJ/East Hampton, NY
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 07-24-2002 09:40 AM      Profile for Jeff Taylor   Email Jeff Taylor   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A major exhibitor chain I work with has a deal with their suppliers where booth personnel are supposed to box 'em up and send them back. In reality the duds sit in a cabinet until someone gets brave and decides to play 4th of July in an empty dumpster with them.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-24-2002 10:31 AM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Usually we put them back in the box, wrapped them up in a garbage bag and tossed them down onto the concret floor really hard. They would bust with a muted "POP!" and there would be nothing left but shattered glass and metal.

If you have a compactor style garbage dumpster at your theatre you MAY be able to put them in there and crush them. Some dumpsters don't "crush" the contents but "compress" the contents back into the larger compartment. If you have a "crush style" compactor-dumpster that would be the all-time safest way to dispose of them. All that metal enclosing the compartment would be imperviouse to even the largest xenon bulb's schrapnel.

If you want to put on a real show for yourself, take one out back to a desserted area, set one up on a tree stump and shoot it with a .22 cal. rifle from about 50 yards away. It's quite spectacular!
If you do this, take all appropriate firearms safety measures as well as all appropriate xenon bulb safety measures! (I live out in the country where people are used to hearing gunfire! )
The 50 yard shooting distance has two purposes. First it's safe. No schrapnel is going to fly that far... 10 or 20 feet, maybe but not 50 yards! Second, it's a more "manly" distance to shoot from.

I have been planning to make a movie about exploding xenon bulbs for some time, now. I'll put the camera behind a plexiglass shield, inside a wooden box and explode them in various interesting ways.
Considering the questions I've seen here over the years, I think I'll also include a segment on "safe" ways of destroying them.

What do y'all think?

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 07-24-2002 10:35 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The original question was how do get a depressurized lamp for "show and tell".

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3686
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 07-24-2002 11:19 AM      Profile for Adam Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Martin       Edit/Delete Post 
Gordon has a degassed 30K (!) lamp at Cinesphere. Something about liquid nitrogen at the local university ...

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-24-2002 05:01 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Honestly, I never considered letting the gas out of a xenon but keeping the rest of it intact.

Really, the only thing I can think of would be to freeze the lamp extremely cold. Liquid nitrogen would be the ultimate thing to use but I wonder if dry ice would be good enough.

Once it's sufficiently cold then I would think breaking off the "nipple" on the side of the bulb where the gas was put in.

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Andy Muirhead
Master Film Handler

Posts: 323
From: Galashiels, Scotland
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 07-24-2002 06:20 PM      Profile for Andy Muirhead   Email Andy Muirhead   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A few months ago we built a permanent display in our foyer with various old projection equipment, including a fully working 1950's Ross projector (it actually runs film, theres a red button for customers to press and it starts up and projects some trailers onto a small screen for about 10 seconds!)

Anyway we wanted some safe Xenon bulbs for the display, phoned our bulb distributor and they sent us 3 depressurised bulbs, a 1.6kw 2kw and 7kw. I don't know how they depressurise them but as Randy said previously the hole was in the 'nipple'

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-25-2002 07:33 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The way that lamp was degassed it was submerged in to a tank of liquid nitrogen for a period of time and then the evacuation tit was sheared off and then it was slowly raised up out of the tank

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John Moriarty
Film Handler

Posts: 50
From: Cambridge, UK
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 07-26-2002 02:26 PM      Profile for John Moriarty   Email John Moriarty   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Andy said:
quote:
I don't know how they depressurise them but as Randy said previously the hole was in the 'nipple'

Surely, it would make more sense for manufacturers just to omit to pressurise the bulb than go to the trouble of pressurising it and then depressurising it. Perhaps even they could use bulbs they don't pressurise for a reason (e.g. manufacturing fault with components).

John

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Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1565
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 07-26-2002 03:38 PM      Profile for Pete Naples   Email Pete Naples   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Andy that sounds quite interesting, I must pop in to your place and take a look the next time I'm passing.

One place I refurbushed were toying with the idea of doing something similar with a 35/70 Fedi XT. It sat in the foyer after being dragged outta the booth but simply took up too much room.

At one point the GFT were going to put one of their retiring DP70's on display, I don't know if they ever did.

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Chad Souder
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 962
From: Waterloo, IA, USA
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 07-26-2002 09:24 PM      Profile for Chad Souder   Email Chad Souder   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This is a piece of cake. I have done several of these for parting gifts for long-time projectionists of mine. Here's a basic step-by-step of what I do:

1. Put the bulb in whatever case it originally came in (although this may be sufficient, I tape a newspaper over it as well just to be on the safe side, leaving a space in the paper through which to drill).

2. With proper face and hand protection on, clamp the bulb into a vice or similar sturdy holder.

3. Get yourself a small bit from the hardware store that is sold for the specific purpose of glass and tile. I can't remember what size I bought, but it's quite small.

4. Drill through the plastic case into a part of the glass that is not rounded. Most bulbs I think are curved around the points, and then they straighten out for an inch or two before getting to the metal. This straight part is where you want to drill. Drill very slow, with little pressure, and take frequent breaks to allow the bit to cool. Do NOT push with much pressure, let the weight of the drill do the work.

5. As you drill, you will be able to see a divot forming in the glass. Eventually, when you finally drill through, you will see the glass shavings puff away as the air escapes. I would think that the older the bulb, the less pressure is left, but maybe not. When finished, you can see a tiny hole through the glass, and you will be left with a completely safe conversation piece. I usually leave the bulb in the case and then make some sort of pedestal out of whatever, and write the dates they worked on the pedestal. It makes a unique gift, that's for sure. If you want a picture, I could probably scrounge one up.

As a side note, I have never had one explode on me, and I have made 3 for different people, using a 1600w twice, and a 3000w once.

------------------
"Asleep at the switch? I wasn't asleep, I was drunk!" - Homer Simpson


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John Anastasio
Master Film Handler

Posts: 325
From: Trenton, NJ, USA
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 07-27-2002 06:20 AM      Profile for John Anastasio   Author's Homepage   Email John Anastasio   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Extreme low temperature is the key to how the lamps are originally pressurized. The xenon is introduced into the lamp in a frozen, solid form as a small "pellet". The lamp is quickly sealed and as the xenon sublimates back into a gaseous form, it pressurizes the lamp.

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Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!

Posts: 3061
From: Rockwall TX USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 07-27-2002 12:51 PM      Profile for Aaron Sisemore   Email Aaron Sisemore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
FWIW, I have a nice velvet-lined plexiglass case with several inert 'display' bulbs ranging in size from 150W to 3000W (there was a 4K in there too, but it broke in transit when I got the case)... I think Brad has a pic of them around here somewhere...

-Aaron

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