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Topic: Interface for 16mm DTS...

Jon Miller
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 973
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 02-28-2002 09:41 PM

I was going to post this inquiry under the "do you prefer DTS or Dolby ?" thread, but the topic was drifting more than a tired driver on a highway...

Someone recently approached me about the feasibility of showing a 16mm DTS print. I've heard it could be done, but have not found any facts on the interface. Is there a specific model of interface and is it readily available? Does the interface connect to the DTS playback unit (in my case, it would be a DTS-6) in place of the customary 35mm reader, and can it be connected without having to tweak the playback unit in any way? Can it work through a 600? line output, if the projector is so equipped? Any of you have recent experience with such a critter?

TIA

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 02-28-2002 09:52 PM

It is actually quite easy. Both of the times I have done 16mm-DTS I came right off the pre-amp output right into the TC input on the DTS (either 6 or 6D). As I recall, I took some SMPTE P16-SL test film (400H at 100% modulation) and set it for 300 mV or so. The DTS input has an AGC so one merely must be in the range. I have done it with a Norelco FP-16 and an Elmo LX-2200.

Now DTS does have an adapter board to go between the preamp and the TC input if desired. From what I understand, it will clean up the signal for a more reliable operation.

Steve

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Josh Jones
Redhat

Posts: 1207
From: Plano, TX
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 02-28-2002 11:24 PM

Which timecode input did you use steve? I assume you used the reader cable. if this was the case, which pins are TC input and Ground?

Josh

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Jon Miller
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 973
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 02-28-2002 11:39 PM

Steve,

Thank you for your quick reply! I checked the DTS-6 manual in the Manuals section, and it looks like I would have to wire the 600-ohm output between pins 1 (TC signal) and 6 (TC ground), assuming I am going directly into the playback unit and using a balanced run with the shield tied to the shell of the DB-9 connector. Does this look correct?

(Josh, this may be the answer to your question to Steve)

I will probably be using an Eiki EX-4000P xenon for this exercise.

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Michael Brown
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1522
From: Bradford, England
Registered: May 2001

posted 03-01-2002 06:46 AM

Sound very complicated. It is really that much hassle.

Not that i know anything about that stuff.

Is their a difference in the timecode?

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 03-01-2002 11:09 AM

Jon, you got it correct. It is quite easy and no glitches were encountered on either of my set ups (these were before the adapter board was available).

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Jeff Taylor
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 601
From: Chatham, NJ/East Hampton, NY
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 03-01-2002 01:44 PM

I have to admit I'm curious, guys. What's out there with DTS in 16mm?

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Josh Jones
Redhat

Posts: 1207
From: Plano, TX
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 03-01-2002 02:09 PM

Well, I guess I'll have to build that DTS reader out of that old Westrex Penthouse

Josh

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Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1565
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 03-01-2002 02:16 PM

Josh, you defiler of Westrex penthouses you!!!! JJ

This is interesting, I've never heard of 16mm DTS before.

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Karen Hultgren
Master Film Handler

Posts: 492
From: Agoura Hills, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 03-01-2002 05:23 PM

The way we play back DTS 16mm films is by using a DTS Model E376 Timecode Preamplifier unit. No reader is used and the timecode track is placed where the mono track used to reside.

The timecode is read by the 16mm projector's optics and is fed to the E376 that feeds the timecode information to a DTS-6D digital playback unit. Then, the digital 5.1 soundtrack (on CD-ROM discs) is fed to the auditorium's sound system or cinema processor (if one exists).

We work very closely with the film makers as most times they are new to the industry and need a little helping hand delivering their mix to us in a form we can use (like DA88). Then, it's business as usual for making discs and we are there to help during screenings/presentations.

Karen at DTS
khultgren@dtsonline.com

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 03-02-2002 11:21 AM

Are any of the studios considering using 16mm with DTS for the non-theatrical market? Or even more intriguing, is there any thought afoot for using it for theatrical releases where screen sizes are small enought that 16mm can look acceptable (like half the older multiplexes)? It would be a much easier way of saving print costs and shipping costs rather than going to the MUCH more expensive DLP route. Imagin, the entire film on one reel...no buildup or breakdown, very cheap UPS shipping.

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Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1565
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 03-02-2002 12:16 PM

Over here we are finding that 16mm has all but died a death. I am informed that there are now no labs in the UK which can process it. Fumeo are no longer making 16mm projectors, and I am also informed that after 'Harry Potter' there will be no 16mm prints of new features struck.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 03-02-2002 01:52 PM

Pete Naples said: "I am informed that there are now no labs in the UK which can process it."

NOT TRUE!

16mm film is still very popular in Europe and the UK, especially Super-16 origination.

Check out the labs that process it:
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/industry/dyn_labs.shtml

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 03-03-2002 06:18 AM

And even though the non-theatrical market has shunk to a fraction of the size it used to be, the 16mm houses like Swank Motion Pictures still book 16mm prints to all those non-theatrical venues like universities and museums who have held out for quality presentation but can't afford 35mm but who still have enough understanding of quality not to go to video projection -- albeit an ever shrinking number -- but enough that the non-theatrical market still gets 16mm prints for all the latest releases. True, it's a nitch market, but once the dust settled from all non-theatrical implosion of the 80s, the ones who have hung on now seem quite healthy. If Swank could start offering DTS prints, that might be a shot in the arm for that market.

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Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1565
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 03-03-2002 06:41 AM

Thanks John, I am misinformed!!

As to 16mm still being popular, I beg to differ on that. Certainly in exhibition. All of my art house type theatres here are 16mm equipped. I was asking around lately, and none of them have shown any for nearly two years now. Even at the Edinburgh Film Festival I haven't seen 16mm or Super 16 run for about the last three years if my memory serves me right.

I know Neil from Edinburgh Uni Film Soc, who posts on here sometimes, was running 16mm in one of their venues, I don't know if they still are. They were running material that is not available on 35mm mainly. There were a couple of 16mm only cinemas over on the west coast, but those shut up shop a couple of years back too, due to lack of available programme.

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