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Author Topic: 20th Century-Fox (1935-2019)
Mark Ogden
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 943
From: Little Falls, N.J.
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 03-19-2019 04:55 PM      Profile for Mark Ogden   Email Mark Ogden   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As I am typing this, Twentieth Century-Fox is in its last few hours as independent studio before being swallowed up tomorrow by Disney. It’s a shame to see this happen, even though the label itself will continue under the Mouse. After recovering from the debacle that was Cleopatra, the Zanuck-era Fox went on an impressive run of production, with the kind of stuff that the young me found very watchable. As I look at my home video collection, I notice that Fox is the most represented major studio in both film and television, with titles from Sunrise (1927) thru to Florence Foster Jenkins (2016), with stops at things like The Day the Earth Stood Still, Fantastic Voyage, Planet of the Apes, Phantom of the Paradise, Star Wars, Alien, Rocky Horror, Young Frakenstein, Office Space, Idiocracy et. al. in between. Their TV division was no slouch either, I grew up with Batman, Lost in Space, Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, MASH and so many more. Technologically, of course, they more-or-less pioneered the 2:39 aspect ratio domestically, with their own sized sprocket holes!

I suppose it all makes business sense, but it’s still hard to see great things get swallowed up by mediocre things, because the mediocre things have better finances. I’m watching with horror what AT&T is doing to HBO and Turner. A good friend is losing his job soon because WarnerMedia is shutting down HBO’s Long Island operations center, and there are rumors within the industry that Turner Classic Movies is on its way out in favor of something more contemporary. All this engulf and devour stuff sucks and breeds unexceptional and uninspired crap, IMHO. There will, of course, be great shareholder value [fu] .

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Frank Cox
Film God

Posts: 2234
From: Melville Saskatchewan Canada
Registered: Apr 2011


 - posted 03-19-2019 05:46 PM      Profile for Frank Cox   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Cox   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm just hoping that they don't put weeks-to months minimum booking periods on everything like they do with the Disney stuff now. Someone in New York can play a movie for six or eight weeks and still get a crowd but that's not the case for small theatres like mine. By the time they'll give me a movie for just one week, it's old news and people have moved on to the next shiny thing. Sure there's still some people who come to see it, but nothing close to what would be here if I played their stuff in a more timely manner.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 03-19-2019 06:07 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Mark Ogden
All this engulf and devour stuff sucks and breeds unexceptional and uninspired crap, IMHO. There will, of course, be great shareholder value [fu] .
Yeah, it's all about increasing shareholder value. And creating pseudo monopolies in the process. The goal is giant-sized companies with little, if any, competition. Abuse of consumers is sure to follow.

I think these latest mergers have been inspired by the rise of online streaming. Anyone who enjoys streaming TV shows and movies might want to mark this specific point in time for posterity. Once the streaming services from Disney, Warner and others get up and running the quality/value of the services will start to suck. As the major studios stick it to Netflix and Amazon, yanking lots of programming from those platforms, it's almost a sure fire bet they won't offer similar levels of pricing and value as Amazon and Netflix. I totally expect big price hikes and stingy program offerings to go with it. In the long run streaming could end up sucking as bad as traditional cable/satellite service.

Meanwhile the Justice Dept, other regulators and lawmakers are asleep at the wheel. These global media companies are far bigger and more pervasive in their reach than the classic big movie studios were before the government broke them apart. Sony owns a big electronics company that makes TVs, camera gear and even lots of pro broadcast gear. Disney is on the board of Apple. AT&T owns a great deal of telecom infrastructure. But as we know the regulators don't care about huge and monopolistic these companies get. As long as the shareholders are doing well the concerns of anyone else don't matter.

One thing I think is funny is these buy-outs are happening at a time when a bunch of major franchises are about to end. And that would make the value of these buy-outs a past-peak thing. The glory days of the Marvel Cinematic Universe will come to an end next month with Avengers: Endgame. Also in April, HBO's Game of Thrones series will start its final season. Lots of other franchises are long in the tooth. These giant media companies are becoming content gate-keepers of a whole lot more gates. But what in the way of NEW content will these pseudo monopolies develop to convince customers to pay the steep prices they're going to charge?

Wasn't HBO's operations center in Long Island there from the very beginning of the network? It's a shame people out there are losing their jobs over AT&T's buy-out. But job losses are another common feature to mergers and acquisitions. The new, bigger company gets loaded up with debt. One way to reduce the bill [i]and bring more "value" to shareholders is cutting the hell out of payroll.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 03-19-2019 08:59 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I tend to think that Warners has the best library (in part because so many MGM titles are now part of it), but Fox also has some very good titles. I hope that these remain readily available for booking.

Not sure how to feel about the Disney acquisition. Disney is sort of an annoying company to deal with on the exhibition side, but they also make good films and do a good job of maintaing their library (even though they are not good about making many titles available).

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 03-19-2019 11:50 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
About the only potentially good thing I see about Disney buying up 20th Century Fox: we could possibly, finally see the original, unaltered versions of Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi released on Blu-ray or even in theaters again. Maybe.

I'm still not all that optimistic such a thing will pass. Retail stores that sell movies, music and books have been in severe decline. Movies on physical media almost seem like an endangered thing now. From a business angle it's not the best environment for a restored-Star Wars release. Still, it's pretty important for true film fans.

Here's an even more cynical possibility: Disney could release the original, unaltered versions of the original Star Wars Trilogy, but do it as an exclusive for their streaming service. I wouldn't put it past them to post it there and not make it available anywhere else.

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Frank Cox
Film God

Posts: 2234
From: Melville Saskatchewan Canada
Registered: Apr 2011


 - posted 03-20-2019 02:43 AM      Profile for Frank Cox   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Cox   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012


 - posted 03-20-2019 04:08 AM      Profile for Marcel Birgelen   Email Marcel Birgelen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
About the only potentially good thing I see about Disney buying up 20th Century Fox: we could possibly, finally see the original, unaltered versions of Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi released on Blu-ray or even in theaters again. Maybe.
Psst... Despecialized Editions [Wink]

I'm not trying to get anybody to pirate stuff, but, if you, like me, own the original editions on VHS and LaserDisc and the DVD and Blu Ray editions of the altered ones, I feel somewhat entitled to get the best version of them available right now.

I would still buy the original versions on Blu-Ray if Disney would ever release them...

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 03-20-2019 08:47 AM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Also, this is probably the time to remind everyone of this infamous letter (see below).

At the time, I wrote a nice response to Chris Aronson and asked him some questions about what was written in the letter. He never replied. That seemed rather rude. At the very least, he could have had his secretary send a form letter or something.

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Mark Ogden
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 943
From: Little Falls, N.J.
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 03-20-2019 09:31 AM      Profile for Mark Ogden   Email Mark Ogden   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
All I can say is, I would certainly hate to be a theater operator right about now. I have heard that Disney is a pain in the ass about booking and splits just by themselves, now they have all of Fox to break balls with as well. I can imagine dealing with them will only become more onerous from now on. I only hope they keep Fox Searchlight, which has been a quality source for art-house and alternative programming.

TV wise, it will be very interesting to see how they will operate their streaming operation, and whether or not they will still licence product to Netflix and other services. The industry scuttlebutt is that HBO will at some time in the future drop off cable and become a streaming-only service themselves, to increase revenue and compete more directly with all of the others. Gonna be bloody.

quote: Bobby Henderson
Wasn't HBO's operations center in Long Island there from the very beginning of the network?
HBO's original NOC was at 120-A East 23rd Street in Manhattan, where I worked briefly in the early eighties running movies from Ampex 1" VTRs and doing film transfers. I usually had the late shift so I was the one who threaded up all the boobie movies on Cinemax. One of the reasons I left was that I didn't want to move to Long Island to work at the Hauppague facility, which was being built while I was there.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 03-20-2019 10:16 AM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I remember that office on East 23rd Street. I often walked past it on the way to classes at School of Visual Arts. I didn't know it was the original network operations center. If I recall correctly after roughly 30 years, the office was pretty non-descript. No big signs or anything. Just some HBO graphics on the office door.

quote: Mark Ogden
TV wise, it will be very interesting to see how they will operate their streaming operation, and whether or not they will still licence product to Netflix and other services. The industry scuttlebutt is that HBO will at some time in the future drop off cable and become a streaming-only service themselves, to increase revenue and compete more directly with all of the others. Gonna be bloody.
Just to repeat it again, I don't know/why the DOJ let this merger fly, at least not with making the newly merged company divest a bunch of properties. Disney will now have control of two major OTA broadcast networks, ABC and Fox. This is almost like letting NBC and CBS merge. Shit, I wouldn't even be surprised to see that now. Disney has control of a bunch of cable networks, including ESPN -one of the networks that makes traditional cable TV too damn expensive.

Regarding HBO "de-coupling" completely from traditional cable, they're already well on their way with that now. The network's departure from Dish appears to be permanent. The other premiums have their own stand-alone streaming options now. As for AT&T/Warner's goal to "grow revenue" with HBO, I think that's some wishful thinking. What does HBO have to offer once Game of Thrones is done? The network does have some good original programming. But is it worth paying $179.88 per year for HBO Now?

I do agree though that it's gonna be bloody. But I think it's going to get bloody in ways these giant sized companies do not expect. Millions of Americans have been cord-cutting for a reason. As tight a strangle-hold grip as these few companies try to get on the distribution of movies, TV shows and music other options are going to pop up. These giant companies only seem to be interested in selling bland, predictable content and not taking chances on new ideas. That will open up opportunities for others, perhaps content creators in other countries. Disney, AT&T/Warner and Comcast can't wall off America's Internet from the rest of the world.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

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From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
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 - posted 03-20-2019 01:25 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I suppose that the counter-argument to Bobby's comments would be this (at least with respect to television): we used to have to worry about consolidation in the television and radio industry when available RF spectrum space limited the number of possible channels. In the future, with online streaming, there is (in principle) no limit to the number of "broadcasters." Anyone with good programming is free to make it available to the world.

And, yes, I realize that the situation is not that simple, and that many people (myself included) still get their television programming over RF. Also, the ability to self-distribute content has always existed in the motion-picture industry, but it's pretty rare to find a movie that wasn't distributed by one of the big studios playing at a Regal or AMC (or other major chain) cinema. Independent distributors have had some success with VHS/DVD distribution, but that has been limited as well.

It will be interesting to see how this shakes out over time, particularly with respect to the home streaming situation.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

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From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 03-20-2019 07:32 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm glad Fox was bought by Disney and not some other company. Disney is committed to the theatrical window, does a good job with the movies it makes, and has the best marketing in the business. Who knows, we might get another good Ice Age movie. Maybe Scrat will become the new mascot of the "Blizzard Beach" water park.

I have a few regrets. Disney is the hardest company to get promotional material out of. They do have the &!#&@ long playtimes, although they're allowing 2 week runs on Dumbo and our neighboring theater got out of Captain Marvel after 2 weeks, too.

But: They make quality product that puts butts in the seats, they're dependable, and they support theatrical. So for now I'm pro-Disney. The minute they start releasing some major movie on their streaming service day and date, I may jump ship.

It'll be interesting to revisit this topic in a few years after we've all seen what's going to happen.

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Martin Brooks
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 900
From: Forest Hills, NY, USA
Registered: May 2002


 - posted 03-20-2019 11:04 PM      Profile for Martin Brooks   Author's Homepage   Email Martin Brooks   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Bobby Henderson
Disney will now have control of two major OTA broadcast networks, ABC and Fox.
No it won't. The Fox network is part of New Fox, which Disney does not own.
Disney does NOT get the following:
Fox Broadcasting Co.
Fox Television Stations Group
Fox News Channel
Fox Business Network
Fox Sports including: Big Ten Network, Fox Deportes, FS1, FS2, Fox Soccer Plus, Fox College Sports and Fox Sports International.
New Fox also retains ownership of the 20thCFox studio lot, although it will be leased by Disney.
And Disney doesn't get the 39% of Sky that Fox owned which has been since been sold to Comcast.

Disney does get:
Fox Entertainment Group:
--20th C Fox
---Fox Searchlight, Blue Sky Studios, Fox Star Studios
--Fox Networks Group
---FX Networks

National Geographic Partners
Star TV
Hulu (30%) (Disney already owned 30%)
Endermol Shine Group

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Dave Bird
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 777
From: Perth, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 03-21-2019 03:24 PM      Profile for Dave Bird   Author's Homepage   Email Dave Bird   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ha ha, I remember that letter, I remember just being impressed they took the time to send a schmuck like me one! I just hope we never lose the Fox fanfare. Disney is delightful to deal with in this country, the 3-week bookings on their bigger titles are a little tough for us with one screen, so we do pass on some of them. Be nice if we can get our second screen built, won't be an issue then, even if it kind of flops, we could play first on Screen 1, then Screen 2 then play second on Screen 2.

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Jesse Skeen
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1517
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: Aug 2000


 - posted 03-21-2019 10:30 PM      Profile for Jesse Skeen   Email Jesse Skeen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
They kind of ruined the Fox fanfare when they had it play the "Cinemascope extension" on flat movies, and I never liked the CG version either.

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