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Author Topic: Nifty cooling fluid...
Mark Gulbrandsen
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From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-27-2017 12:02 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Wondering why a light engine couldn't be submerged in this stuff... I haven't looked up it's optical properties, but its 100X more efficient than what TI is using now.Cost is about $400 a gallon...

Novec 7000 Cooling

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Jim Cassedy
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: San Francisco, CA
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 - posted 02-28-2017 01:56 PM      Profile for Jim Cassedy   Email Jim Cassedy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
WoW, Mark... that is pretty amazing. I've heard of submersive cooling,
but have never seen it "in action". I'm assuming the liquid must be
non-conductive. I think $400/gal is still cheaper than printer ink. [Razz]

I wish they could apply this to some of the new projection systems.
I've been working a lot with laser DCP projectors lately, and one of
the things I was surprised at is how noisy they are. In one booth,
the two DolbyVision projector heads have 24 fans each, & at least
another 30 more in each of the laser racks, plus the power supply
fans and the dedicated ventilation system for the laser modules.

It all creates a lot of noise, even in a large (50x27ft) booth. I'm
tempted to bring in a meter and measure it some day. I'm almost
sure it must be over some OSHA spec for acceptable noise level.

I'd give anything to be able to put all that stuff in a vat of coolant
that would quelch the noise level, as well as keep them cool.

Maybe we could even raise the temperature of that booth a bit, since
it's now kept comfortably at what seems to be a few degrees above
freezing, mainly for the sake of the laser systems.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
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From: Bountiful, Utah
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 - posted 02-28-2017 09:00 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree Jim, I think this could have some very definite applications in all types of D-Cinema projectors. You could submerge the entire light engine itself to cool it and this stuff has a claimed efficiency of 100X that of air cooling. All they'd have to do is figure out the baffles to keep the resulting CO2 bubbles out if the light path. Cooling like this could also completely solve all of Sony's woes with LCOS...

You can bet that in larger quantities it is much cheaper. A small group of home computer burners are already using this stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6ErbZtpL88

Mark

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Dave Macaulay
Film God

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From: Toronto, Canada
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 - posted 03-12-2017 03:25 PM      Profile for Dave Macaulay   Email Dave Macaulay   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I saw a similar thing rather a lot of years ago. The bubbles are not CO2, they are the coolant boiling off. The fluid I saw (some freon-like stuff as I recall) had a low boiling point suited to the electronics it was cooling- there was a refrigerated coil of stainless tube above the fluid, the vapor condensed on that and just dripped back into the pool. The vapor was very heavy compared to air and the tank could be left open without much/any vapor escaping.
This was mid 70's computer hardware, I don't remember if it was in commercial use or a research project.

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Leo Enticknap
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From: Loma Linda, CA
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 - posted 03-12-2017 10:42 PM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Jim Cassedy
I've been working a lot with laser DCP projectors lately, and one of the things I was surprised at is how noisy they are.
Interesting - our Barco DP4K-30L is a lot quieter than the DP4K-32B it replaced. It's almost entirely gas cooled, though there are one or two fans in it. The chiller makes a soft whining noise, a bit like a jet engine in the first few seconds of spooling up from cold.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
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 - posted 03-13-2017 01:30 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dave, this is probably similar to what you saw... it may actually be what you saw. This fluid also condenses back after boiling off and is 100% reclaimed back to it's original job.

Mark

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Jay Glaus
Expert Film Handler

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From: Pittsburgh, PA USA
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 - posted 03-13-2017 03:12 PM      Profile for Jay Glaus   Author's Homepage   Email Jay Glaus   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't know what exactly is in that coolant, but I know I've seen a few computer tower builds where everything is submerged in mineral oil.

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John Roddy
Expert Film Handler

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From: Spring, TX, United States
Registered: Dec 2012


 - posted 03-15-2017 11:02 PM      Profile for John Roddy   Author's Homepage   Email John Roddy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Jay Glaus
I don't know what exactly is in that coolant, but I know I've seen a few computer tower builds where everything is submerged in mineral oil.
I do remember the fad of submerging components in mineral oil. It died out pretty fast when people realized that it's just dumb. Mineral oil is really expensive (at least for that quantity), does a piss-poor job of transferring heat, and guarantees a new type of hell to experience when you end up having to clean it up. It was only really considered because no other fluid was feasible.

There are plenty of problems with submerging everything, and no real ultimate benefit even if it does work. Even the fluid shown here is only being used as an oversized vapor chamber. Copper heatpipes use the exact same process for transferring heat from smaller surfaces on a much smaller scale, and vapor chambers just spread that over a larger area. And that's where the fundamental flaw with submerged cooling comes into play. The components generating the most heat are pretty small. Why on earth would you want to submerge absolutely everything in it when very little is going to benefit in the first place?

It makes a lot more sense to focus on pulling as much heat away from the most important components (e.g. the DMDs and other chips), while keeping a strong airflow across the rest to maintain a low ambient temperature. And in that regard, submerged cooling is just a pipe dream (there's a pun in there somewhere). I think the projectors would benefit more from a cooling solution that pulls more heat from the important stuff, dissipates it over a larger radiator (the heat exchangers I've seen being used are freaking puny!), and an overall stronger focus on noise. I get the feeling that most manufacturers don't even care about how loud it is.

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

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From: prospect ky usa
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 - posted 03-18-2017 09:25 AM      Profile for Louis Bornwasser   Author's Homepage   Email Louis Bornwasser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Remember when certain speakers had water-bed balloons in the side walls? Great. Now my speakers can freeze and leak. Never had THAT problem before.

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John Roddy
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 114
From: Spring, TX, United States
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 - posted 03-22-2017 11:21 AM      Profile for John Roddy   Author's Homepage   Email John Roddy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Louis Bornwasser
Remember when certain speakers had water-bed balloons in the side walls? Great. Now my speakers can freeze and leak. Never had THAT problem before.
And thus is the problem with wacky new technology like this. The disadvantages will sound pretty obvious in retrospect, but it's a pretty tall order to recognize all of that beforehand. I'm sure the people who spent hours desperately trying to remove the excess mineral oil from the inside of their CPU sockets took that to heart too…

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