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Author Topic: New York plans to ban sugared drinks over 16 oz.
Mike Blakesley
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 - posted 05-31-2012 06:34 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In an incredible display of idiocy, even for New York:

New York Plans to Ban Sale of Big Sizes of Sugary Drinks

By MICHAEL M. GRYNBAUM
Published: May 30, 2012

New York City plans to enact a far-reaching ban on the sale of large sodas and other sugary drinks at restaurants, movie theaters and street carts, in the most ambitious effort yet by the Bloomberg administration to combat rising obesity.

The proposed ban would affect virtually the entire menu of popular sugary drinks found in delis, fast-food franchises and even sports arenas, from energy drinks to pre-sweetened iced teas. The sale of any cup or bottle of sweetened drink larger than 16 fluid ounces — about the size of a medium coffee, and smaller than a common soda bottle — would be prohibited under the first-in-the-nation plan, which could take effect as soon as next March.

The measure would not apply to diet sodas, fruit juices, dairy-based drinks like milkshakes, or alcoholic beverages; it would not extend to beverages sold in grocery or convenience stores.

“Obesity is a nationwide problem, and all over the United States, public health officials are wringing their hands saying, ‘Oh, this is terrible,’ ” Mr. Bloomberg said in an interview on Wednesday in the Governor’s Room at City Hall.

“New York City is not about wringing your hands; it’s about doing something,” he said. “I think that’s what the public wants the mayor to do.”

A spokesman for the New York City Beverage Association, an arm of the soda industry’s national trade group, criticized the city’s proposal on Wednesday. The industry has clashed repeatedly with the city’s health department, saying it has unfairly singled out soda; industry groups have bought subway advertisements promoting their cause.

“The New York City health department’s unhealthy obsession with attacking soft drinks is again pushing them over the top,” the industry spokesman, Stefan Friedman, said. “It’s time for serious health professionals to move on and seek solutions that are going to actually curb obesity. These zealous proposals just distract from the hard work that needs to be done on this front.”

Mr. Bloomberg’s proposal requires the approval of the Board of Health, a step that is considered likely because the members are all appointed by him, and the board’s chairman is the city’s health commissioner, who joined the mayor in supporting the measure on Wednesday.

Mr. Bloomberg has made public health one of the top priorities of his lengthy tenure, and has championed a series of aggressive regulations, including bans on smoking in restaurants and parks, a prohibition against artificial trans fat in restaurant food and a requirement for health inspection grades to be posted in restaurant windows.

The measures have led to occasional derision of the mayor as Nanny Bloomberg, by those who view the restrictions as infringements on personal freedom. But many of the measures adopted in New York have become models for other cities, including restrictions on smoking and trans fats, as well as the use of graphic advertising to combat smoking and soda consumption, and the demand that chain restaurants post calorie contents next to prices.

In recent years, soda has emerged as a battleground in efforts to counter obesity. Across the nation, some school districts have banned the sale of soda in schools, and some cities have banned the sale of soda in public buildings.

In New York City, where more than half of adults are obese or overweight, Dr. Thomas Farley, the health commissioner, blames sweetened drinks for up to half of the increase in city obesity rates over the last 30 years. About a third of New Yorkers drink one or more sugary drinks a day, according to the city. Dr. Farley said the city had seen higher obesity rates in neighborhoods where soda consumption was more common.

The ban would not apply to drinks with fewer than 25 calories per 8-ounce serving, like zero-calorie Vitamin Waters and unsweetened iced teas, as well as diet sodas.

Restaurants, delis, movie theater and ballpark concessions would be affected, because they are regulated by the health department. Carts on sidewalks and in Central Park would also be included, but not vending machines or newsstands that serve only a smattering of fresh food items.

At fast-food chains, where sodas are often dispersed at self-serve fountains, restaurants would be required to hand out cup sizes of 16 ounces or less, regardless of whether a customer opts for a diet drink. But free refills — and additional drink purchases — would be allowed.

Corner stores and bodegas would be affected if they are defined by the city as “food service establishments.” Those stores can most easily be identified by the health department letter grades they are required to display in their windows.

The mayor, who said he occasionally drank a diet soda “on a hot day,” contested the idea that the plan would limit consumers’ choices, saying the option to buy more soda would always be available.

“Your argument, I guess, could be that it’s a little less convenient to have to carry two 16-ounce drinks to your seat in the movie theater rather than one 32 ounce,” Mr. Bloomberg said in a sarcastic tone. “I don’t think you can make the case that we’re taking things away.”

He also said he foresaw no adverse effect on local businesses, and he suggested that restaurants could simply charge more for smaller drinks if their sales were to drop.

The Bloomberg administration had made previous, unsuccessful efforts to make soda consumption less appealing. The mayor supported a state tax on sodas, but the measure died in Albany, and he tried to restrict the use of food stamps to buy sodas, but the idea was rejected by federal regulators.

With the new proposal, City Hall is now trying to see how much it can accomplish without requiring outside approval. Mayoral aides say they are confident that they have the legal authority to restrict soda sales, based on the city’s jurisdiction over local eating establishments, the same oversight that allows for the health department’s letter-grade cleanliness rating system for restaurants.

In interviews at the AMC Loews Village, in the East Village in Manhattan, some filmgoers said restricting large soda sales made sense to them.

“I think it’s a good idea,” said Sara Gochenauer, 21, a personal assistant from the Upper West Side. Soda, she said, “rots your teeth.”

But others said consumers should be free to choose.

“If people want to drink 24 ounces, it’s their decision,” said Zara Atal, 20, a college student from the Upper East Side.

Lawrence Goins, 50, a postal worker who lives in Newark, took a more pragmatic approach.

“Some of those movies are three, three and a half hours long,” Mr. Goins said. “You got to quench your thirst.”

Colin Moynihan contributed reporting.

New York Times article

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Joe Redifer
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 - posted 05-31-2012 07:16 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, there goes the "micro" size for most movie theaters out there, at least in New York anyway. I think the smallest some theaters sell is like 22oz? Not sure why that is.

But there's a loophole! Hardly anything any more has sugar in it. It's all nastified High Fructose Corn Syrup. That's certainly not sugar. I'd rather dump sugar down my innards than HFCS. I'd also rather consume aspartame than HFCS. Unfortunately New York's new law will only make sure we continue to subsidize corn. Damn, we're kind of retarded for doing that.

Another loophole is that they simply sell you two drinks for the price of one.

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Mike Blakesley
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 - posted 05-31-2012 08:28 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Right, or you will see the birth of the "unlimited free refill."

If this goes through, the next obvious step will be a limit on how many sodas one person can buy in a day -- which will lead to mass bootlegging of sodas.

What's next? A ban on "Quarter Pounders?" A limit on the number of pieces of chicken you can buy from Colonel Sanders? A ban on fried foods altogether?

This is just a government suit wanting to legislate healthful habits, which the cigarette industry (and the illicit drug industry) is continually proving can't be done. What's wrong with letting people live their own lives anyway?

The scariest part is this is direct from the MAYOR of New York City, who you'd think would be smarter than this.

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Louis Bornwasser
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 - posted 05-31-2012 09:27 PM      Profile for Louis Bornwasser   Author's Homepage   Email Louis Bornwasser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There is no soft drink with sugar unless it is Mexicon Coke. Corn syrup yes, sugar no. Will be interesting to see how they write this bill. Louis

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Mark J. Marshall
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 - posted 05-31-2012 10:34 PM      Profile for Mark J. Marshall     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Pepsi Throwback and Mountain Dew Throwback claim to have sugar instead of corn syrup.

I'm really sick of the nanny state bull crap. So I guess they hope people are too smart to order two or three drinks when they're really thirsty.

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Mike Blakesley
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 - posted 05-31-2012 10:38 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That's stupid too.... because it will make the same amount of soda cost more.

Hey wait, I should be SUPPORTING this. Instead of $2.75 for a 44-ounce soda, I'll be able to sell three 16-ouncers for $1.50 each. BONUS! I just nearly doubled my price, thanks to the government.

Nahh, it's too stupid. Support withdrawn (even at the risk of great financial loss.)

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Scott Norwood
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 - posted 05-31-2012 11:39 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This is even more stupid than the NYC anti-trans-fat law. Why do these people think that they have any right to tell adults what types of foods they can and cannot purchase?

Oh, well, it's not as if I needed any more reasons to not live in NYC.

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Bobby Henderson
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 - posted 06-01-2012 12:18 AM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This proposed soft drink ban isn't very practical. I'll be surprised if it manages to go into effect and not be overturned by various courts.

Nevertheless, this country's ever worsening problem of obesity is costing a tremendous fortune. The situation is NOT sustainable. It will eventually wreck our economy. The problem is very complex and must be battled on a number of different fronts. IMHO, banning the use of High Fructose Corn Syrup would be an excellent start. It is an unnatural sweetener and it is used in a lot more foods than just sweetened drinks. It's very interesting how the trend line of obesity pivoted upward around 1980 to coincide with the food industry's adoption of HFCS as a replacement of natural cane and beet sugar.

Personal responsibility is central to the United States doing anything substantial about the obesity epidemic. This country shouldn't become a "nanny state" about the problem. Instead, it's high time some folks who talk about "freedom" in regard to food choices learn the flip side of that freedom of choice: consequence. If someone really wants to defend the freedom of living badly he also needs to be free to die badly for making those choices.

But no! Whenever anyone is facing a lethal and very costly medical situation particularly one that could have been prevented those principals of freedom, responsibility and consequence get thrown out the window in favor of a bailout -a bailout from insurance companies, hospitals, taxpayers (not to mention employers dealing with all the lost productivity from sick employees and those sick employees driving his health insurance policy costs through the damned roof).

I don't drink or eat anything with HFCS in it. More than that, I get off my damned ass and work out in the gym at least 4 or 5 times a week. I eat responsibly. I think far more Americans should be doing the same thing. But the sad fact is they won't bother doing any of that until they are forced to do so. The general public is simply that irresponsible.

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Chris Slycord
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 - posted 06-01-2012 12:48 AM      Profile for Chris Slycord   Email Chris Slycord   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Joe Redifer
But there's a loophole! Hardly anything any more has sugar in it. It's all nastified High Fructose Corn Syrup. That's certainly not sugar.
That depends on how the law is actually written. If its a ban on drinks containing "sugars" then drinks containing HFCS would be included in the ban and if it refers to "sugar" instead, the law still could define "sugar" in such a way as to include all types of sugars (including those from HFCS).

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Mike Blakesley
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 - posted 06-01-2012 12:52 AM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The solution to the obesity problem is really pretty simple:

1. Don't eat so much stuff

2. Don't eat in restaurants, because they tend to serve huge portions and fatty foods. And, avoid fast-food places. If you have to eat in a restaurant, divide one meal for two people or just eat the salads. (Parents: If you have fat kids, check your McDonalds frequency...you may find the problem. And while you're at it, get rid of the video games and make them play outside.)

3. Don't snack between meals.

Of course this solution isn't as much fun for the politicians and law-makers, and there's no money in it either, so it'll never gain wide acceptance.

I've always been skinny my whole life, so imagine my surprise a couple of years ago when my doctor told me I needed to lose 10 to 15 pounds. So what did I do? I stopped eating that nightly snack before I went to bed, which I'd gotten into the habit of doing. Pounds: Gone in about 2 weeks. I still drink Pepsi a lot (too much, actually) but I never snack between meals. I'm also not much of a candy eater ... and I never eat theater popcorn, believe it or not.

I realize it's not that simple for some people, but I seriously think that if everybody followed the three points above, the problem would be way less serious.

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Leo Enticknap
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 - posted 06-01-2012 01:01 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Firstly, as a sidenote, despite being engaged to an American, having spent quite a lot of time in the US now and my emigrating being a possible outcome (we're still working through which of us is going to make the move after we're married), I'm afraid I betrayed my European routes just now by having to do a fluid ounce to metric conversion before really understanding what the fuss is about. I'll learn eventually, I guess! To save any other European reader the job, 16 fl/oz is 473ml - about midway between the size of a standard fizzy drink (soda) can (330ml) and a pint (568ml).

Agreed totally with Bobby and everyone else: if people want to drink that much soda they'll find a way around any government regulation placed in their path - and usually with the help of the supplier (e.g. unlimited refills). It's the same syndrome whereby the Scottish Government thinks it can deal with the country's perceived alcoholism problem by setting minimum prices for booze. In both cases, unless they're willing to leave the murderers and rapists to get on with it and have the police spend all their time catching people selling Coke by the pint or cheap bottles of vodka, they're not going to be able to stop it; and frankly, I'd much rather they concentrate on catching the murderers and rapists. Exercising and encouraging common sense/personal responsibility in what you eat and drink and how much exercise you get is much more effective, and if people aren't willing to do that voluntarily, any attempt to force them will almost certainly end in failure.

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Martin McCaffery
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 - posted 06-01-2012 07:53 AM      Profile for Martin McCaffery   Author's Homepage   Email Martin McCaffery   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Coincidentally, the FDC just ruled that HFCS is not sugar, but syrup, thus preventing the corn industry from relabeling it "corn sugar." So now we have a lobbyist wet dream in NYC. (http://www.fda.gov/AboutFDA/CentersOffices/OfficeofFoods/CFSAN/CFSANFOIAElectronicReadingRoom/ucm305226.htm)

As one would expect, Jon Stewart took apart the new proposal last night:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-may-31-2012/drink-different

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Mark Hajducki
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 - posted 06-01-2012 11:22 AM      Profile for Mark Hajducki   Email Mark Hajducki   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Leo Enticknap
16 fl/oz is 473ml - about midway between the size of a standard fizzy drink (soda) can (330ml) and a pint (568ml).
In Europe a lot of soft drinks are sold in 500ml bottles which would be outlawed under this plan.

Would retailers selling draught drinks be allowed to sell the syrup separately from the water?

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Leo Enticknap
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 - posted 06-01-2012 12:24 PM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Good point about the bottles. Whereas the ban wouldn't affect normal sized cans, it would cover the half-litre bottles you see on sale all over the place in both Britain and the US. Interestingly, some of the bottles at least are actually 500ml in the US - the one of mineral water I'm drinking right now says 16.9floz/500ml on it. The normal US cans are 12 floz/355ml. I'm guessing, therefore, that this proposed law is designed deliberately to catch the bottles.

I can't work out from the article posted by Mike whether the proposed ban would just affect drinks sold for consumption on the premises, or sealed bottles to take away as well.

quote:
The proposed ban would affect virtually the entire menu of popular sugary drinks found in delis, fast-food franchises and even sports arenas, from energy drinks to pre-sweetened iced teas. The sale of any cup or bottle of sweetened drink larger than 16 fluid ounces — about the size of a medium coffee, and smaller than a common soda bottle — would be prohibited under the first-in-the-nation plan, which could take effect as soon as next March.
If this isn't just about restauarants/bars/cafes/concession stands etc., but will cover soda sold in supermarkets as well, it'll cause complete chaos, I'd have thought. Either the manufacturers will have to start making 16 floz bottles just for the New York market (and if they do, there will then be the tinsy problem of modiying tens of thousands of vending machines), or simply withdraw the existing bottles from sale. Anyways, the only outcome I can see is more expensive soda and anyone who wants to drink a pint of the stuff at once just buying two cans.

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Monte L Fullmer
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 - posted 06-01-2012 01:10 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thing also is that some people that are large in stature, may have metabolism traits that prevents them from losing weight.

This is really an unfair and horribly peer pressurized, status driven idea - having to conform to the ideal socialized dream of "thin looks healthy".

This goes on the same drift as in the Homeowner's Association for new suburbs that are popping up everywhere: a covenant, that the owner signs with the purchase of the house, that the rules that the HOA drafts up to have "the perfect neighborhood", and charges the homeowner a yearly fee and issues fines to the homeowner if a rule or rules are broken.

I absolutely refuse to live in these circumstances.

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