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Author Topic: Newsweek article on 3D: nothing new, move on
Julio Roberto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 938
From: Madrid, Madrid, Spain
Registered: Oct 2008


 - posted 05-01-2010 06:31 PM      Profile for Julio Roberto     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
http://www.newsweek.com/id/237110

Has some nice parts:

quote:

...

THERE'S MONEY TO BE MADE IN SELLING NEW DIGITAL PROJECTORS.
These projectors are not selling themselves. There was initial opposition from exhibitors to the huge cost of new equipment and infighting about whether studios would help share these expenses. Some studios, concerned with tarnishing the 3-D myth, have told exhibitors that if they don't show a movie in 3-D, they can't have it in 2-D. Although there's room in most projection booths for both kinds of projectors, theaters are encouraged to remove analog projectors as soon as they can. Why so much haste to get rid of them? Are exhibitors being encouraged to burn their bridges by insecure digital manufacturers?
...

HAVE YOU NOTICED THAT 3-D SEEMS A LITTLE DIM?
Lenny Lipton is known as the father of the electronic stereoscopic-display industry. He knows how films made with his systems should look. Current digital projectors, he writes, are "intrinsically inefficient. Half the light goes to one eye and half to the other, which immediately results in a 50 percent reduction in illumination." Then the glasses themselves absorb light. The vast majority of theaters show 3-D at between three and six foot-lamberts (fLs). Film projection provides about 15fLs

...

4. IT CAN CREATE NAUSEA AND HEADACHES.
AS 3-D TV sets were being introduced at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas in January, Reuters interviewed two leading ophthalmologists. "There are a lot of people walking around with very minor eye problems—for example, a muscle imbalance—which under normal circumstances the brain deals with naturally," said Dr. Michael Rosenberg, a professor at Northwestern University. 3-D provides an unfamiliar visual experience, and "that translates into greater mental effort, making it easier to get a headache." Dr. Deborah Friedman, a professor of ophthalmology and neurology at the University of Rochester Medical Center, said that in normal vision, each eye sees things at a slightly different angle. "When that gets processed in the brain, that creates the perception of depth. The illusions that you see in three dimensions in the movies is not calibrated the same way that your eyes and your brain are." In a just-published article, Consumer Reports says about 15 percent of the moviegoing audience experiences headache and eyestrain during 3-D movies.

...

THEATERS SLAP ON A SURCHARGE OF $5 TO $7.50 FOR 3-D.
Yet when you see a 2-D film in a 3-D-ready theater, the 3-D projectors are also outfitted for 2-D films: it uses the same projector but doesn't charge extra. See the Catch-22? Are surcharges here to stay, or will they be dropped after the projectors are paid off? What do you think? I think 3-D is a form of extortion for parents whose children are tutored by advertising and product placement to "want" 3-D. In my review of Clash of the Titans, I added a footnote: "Explain to your kids that the movie was not filmed in 3-D and is only being shown in 3-D in order to charge you an extra $5 a ticket. I saw it in 2-D, and let me tell you, it looked terrific." And it did. The "3-D" was hastily added in postproduction to ride on the coattails of Avatar. The fake-3-D Titans even got bad reviews from 3-D cheerleaders. Jeffrey Katzenberg, whose DreamWorks has moved wholeheartedly into 3-D, called it "cheeseball," adding: "You just snookered the movie audience." He told Variety he was afraid quickie, fake-3-D conversions would kill the goose that was being counted on for golden eggs.

...

Consider Tim Burton, who was forced by marketing executives to create a faux-3-D film that was then sold as Alice in Wonderland: An IMAX 3D Experience (although remember that the new IMAX theaters are not true IMAX). Yes, it had huge grosses. But its 3-D effects were minimal and unnecessary; a scam to justify the surcharge.

...

WHENEVER HOLLYWOOD HAS FELT THREATENED, IT HAS TURNED TO TECHNOLOGY: SOUND, COLOR, WIDESCREEN, CINERAMA, 3-D, STEREOPHONIC SOUND, AND NOW 3-D AGAIN.
In marketing terms, this means offering an experience that can't be had at home. With the advent of Blu-ray discs, HD cable, and home digital projectors, the gap between the theater and home experiences has been narrowed. 3-D widened it again. Now home 3-D TV sets may narrow that gap as well.

What Hollywood needs is a "premium" experience that is obviously, dramatically better than anything at home, suitable for films aimed at all ages, and worth a surcharge. For years I've been praising a process invented by Dean Goodhill called MaxiVision48, which uses existing film technology but shoots at 48 frames per second and provides smooth projection that is absolutely jiggle-free. Modern film is projected at 24 frames per second (fps) because that is the lowest speed that would carry analog sound in the first days of the talkies. Analog sound has largely been replaced by digital sound. MaxiVision48 projects at 48fps, which doubles image quality. The result is dramatically better than existing 2-D. In terms of standard measurements used in the industry, it's 400 percent better. That is not a misprint. Those who haven't seen it have no idea how good it is. I've seen it, and also a system of some years ago, Douglas Trumbull's Showscan. These systems are so good that the screen functions like a window into three dimensions. If moviegoers could see it, they would simply forget about 3-D.

I'm not opposed to 3-D as an option. I'm opposed to it as a way of life for Hollywood, where it seems to be skewing major studio output away from the kinds of films we think of as Oscar-worthy. Scorsese and Herzog make films for grown-ups. Hollywood is racing headlong toward the kiddie market. Disney recently announced it will make no more traditional films at all, focusing entirely on animation, franchises, and superheroes. I have the sense that younger Hollywood is losing the instinctive feeling for story and quality that generations of executives possessed. It's all about the marketing. Hollywood needs a projection system that is suitable for all kinds of films—every film—and is hands-down better than anything audiences have ever seen. The marketing executives are right that audiences will come to see a premium viewing experience they can't get at home. But they're betting on the wrong experience.



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Mike Blakesley
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 - posted 05-01-2010 06:38 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
He's got a few things wrong...for one thing the surcharge is generally in the $3 to $4 range isn't it?

As for the surcharge and higher prices being "a way to gouge the market," I hate that notion that the media keeps pushing. People keep wanting better and bigger, so they need to pay for it and stop griping. Movies are still a bargain. If people still wanted mono sound and crappy scratched prints and wooden seats, we could give them that and make plenty of money at $3 a ticket. But if you want all the bells & whistles, gotta pony up.

Also this:
quote:
Disney recently announced it will make no more traditional films at all, focusing entirely on animation, franchises, and superheroes.
I frequent a few Disney sites and I've never seen this announcement.

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Hillary Charles
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: York, PA, USA
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 - posted 05-01-2010 07:31 PM      Profile for Hillary Charles   Email Hillary Charles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Roger Ebert hates 3-D?!?!?!? [Eek!]

Oh well, if he says I should hate it too, well then...

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

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 - posted 05-01-2010 08:09 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The fact remains it DOES cost more to make and present a 3D movie, period! There is more equipment involved and it tends to use brighter (more expensive) lamps too. And SOMEBODY has to pay for those stupid glasses.

The up charges I've seen are in the $2-$3 range around here.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

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From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
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 - posted 05-01-2010 09:02 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is anyone, anywhere doing 3D without a surcharge?

And has anyone, anywhere had a surcharge for 3D in any of its previous incarnations?

The whole "3D surcharge" thing just rubs me the wrong way as a filmgoer. I realize that it costs more to produce and exhibit in 3D, but shouldn't the additional boxoffice revenue make up for this?

I've never heard of a "70mm surcharge" or "digital sound surcharge," so why should there be a surcharge for 3D?

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

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From: Annapolis, MD
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 - posted 05-01-2010 10:16 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There was a surcharge for 70mm back when...the "hard ticket" shows were normally more pricey.

However, previous incarnations of 3D used film...the lenses were normally rented and the glasses provided...the actual cost to make them was less than today though it still did have extra expenses.

70mm of the 80s/90s too only really had the print cost and the one time 70mm projector cost associated with it. For the exhibitor, 70mm normally bought a level of exclusivity, which helped to defray the cost of the 70mm equipment. Hence, you didn't normally see 70mm installed in the 80s in areas where there was no competition.

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Bobby Henderson
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 - posted 05-01-2010 10:42 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The surcharge for digital 3D here in Lawton is usually $3. The Carmike theater in town has 3 RealD equipped screens and the Dickinson Theaters Central Mall 12 now has 1 RealD equipped screen (also the only d-cinema equipped screen in the complex). It was installed in time for the release of Avatar.

One exception on the pricing is certain concert shows -whether they're in 2D or 3D the concert movies can cost a LOT more than a standard movie ticket price. I find that pretty ridiculous. The price to see U23D wasn't any different than any other 3D movie, but some other concerts (Mylie Cyrus I think) cost $20 or $30. I'm willing to pay a significant amount of money to see one of my favorite bands LIVE. I'm not paying anything above a standard movie ticket price and standard 3D surcharge to see them in a previously recorded, digital projected show.

Regarding 70mm, I never had to pay anything extra above the standard ticket price to see a movie projected in 5-perf 70mm. However, I appreciate the format enough that I would be willing to pay a couple bucks extra if the movie was shot on 65mm film and/or projected in 70mm on a really big screen in a very nice theater.

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Mike Blakesley
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 - posted 05-02-2010 12:02 AM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Bobby Henderson
I'm willing to pay a significant amount of money to see one of my favorite bands LIVE. I'm not paying anything above a standard movie ticket price and standard 3D surcharge to see them in a previously recorded, digital projected show.
I guess I feel the same way but I'll be damned if I can say why. I mean, either way you're still sitting in the same theatre seat and seeing the same performance...what's the difference if it's live or recorded a couple of weeks previous?

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

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 - posted 05-02-2010 01:22 AM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
With a live concert you're seeing the band in person. You're there in the same building with them. You're seeing them with your own eyes (even though you might have to use binoculars to get a better view if you're in a really big stadium). That's a big difference.

A pre-recorded show on video or on film is just that. It's canned. It's not live. And it's not in person. I like concert movies, but I'm not willing to pay anything remotely near a live show premium to see them one time in a movie theater. The same goes for stage plays (although I can't recall any d-cinema shows of stage plays yet). I enjoy watching a well done live stage play whether its a small production or a major spectacle on Broadway or in Las Vegas. The performance is taking place live. And the live aspect commands the higher price. Something played from a recording does not.

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Mark J. Marshall
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 - posted 05-02-2010 02:39 AM      Profile for Mark J. Marshall     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I swear I remember paying a surcharge on DLP 2D when DLP was in its infancy.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

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From: Forsyth, Montana
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 - posted 05-02-2010 12:29 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Bobby Henderson
With a live concert you're seeing the band in person.
I misunderstood your post. I thought you were saying that you'd pay a premium to see a LIVE BROADCAST of your favorite band, as opposed to a live concert. Yep, definitely a difference there. So we have no argument.

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Randy Stankey
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 - posted 05-02-2010 12:46 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
One thing... We show the Met Opera on our screen.

They have interviews with the performers and they show backstage shots during the intermissions. This is something that the customer, physically present in New York City, won't necessarily see.

They have something like 10 cameras. Some are hand held. Some are robotic. They put out a full-fledged quality production.

I don't remember the price but, the last time I looked, I think the cheapest tickets at the Met were more than $100 for seats in the upper balconies. If you wanted to go to New York and see an opera, including travel costs, lodging, food and spending money, you could easily spend a couple thousand.

Our movie tickets sell for $5.00 and our Met Opera tickets sell for $10.00.

I consider that a bargain.

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Claude S. Ayakawa
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From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA
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 - posted 05-02-2010 01:00 PM      Profile for Claude S. Ayakawa   Author's Homepage   Email Claude S. Ayakawa   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As much as I love opera, the $20.00 admission the Dole Cannery 18 is charging for live Metropolitan Opera HD presentations is a bit much for me.

I paid the senior admission fee of $13.00 to see AVATAR in digital 3-D IMAX at the same theatre and that too was a bit pricy but it was worth it.

As much as I love 3-D. I have not seen HOW TO TRAIN YOUR DRAGON and CLASH OF THE TITANS in 3-D because I have become tedious of animated 3-D films and the bad reviews CLASH has received especially it's fake 3-D.

Unless a movie is extra special like AVATAR, I doubt I will see too many 3-D films if Hollywood keep on grinding the same old stuff consisting of animated and slasher horror films that are geared to children and young adults.

-Claude

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Robert E. Allen
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 - posted 05-02-2010 03:48 PM      Profile for Robert E. Allen   Email Robert E. Allen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Mike Blakesley
He's got a few things wrong...for one thing the surcharge is generally in the $3 to $4 range isn't it?

As for the surcharge and higher prices being "a way to gouge the market," I hate that notion that the media keeps pushing. People keep wanting better and bigger, so they need to pay for it and stop griping. Movies are still a bargain. If people still wanted mono sound and crappy scratched prints and wooden seats, we could give them that and make plenty of money at $3 a ticket. But if you want all the bells & whistles, gotta pony up.

Now, now Mike. Settle down. Just because the delivery system is film does not mean it's a crappy, scratched print. In the 20 plus years I was in the booth a scratched film was a rarity. And I've never been in an auditorium that had wooden seats (except my high school).

And I believe the surcharge (event price) is ridiculous and I refuse to pay it.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

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From: Denver, Colorado
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 - posted 05-02-2010 05:06 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Same here. The surcharge will probably eventually kill 3D. No surcharge for digital sound and it definitely costs more to make and present a movie in digital sound. 3D does not enhance the experience as much as digital sound does, now how, no way.

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