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Author Topic: AR-15: A2 or A3 Flat Top? Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-14-2008 12:35 PM                     I've decided to get mine before the Big Potato gets his claws on the Constitution. I've got a line on the lower receiver which is the only FFL part of the gun. Trigger parts, stock and action parts are fairly academic. I'm still deciding on what kind of barrel to use. But, before I decide on the barrel, I have to decide on the upper receiver configuration. I really don't want a super-custom, revved up, futuristic unit that looks like something out of "The Terminator." I want to stay close to the "classic" design of the AR-15. I've narrowed it down to the A2 or the A3 (Flat Top) design. The A2 is the classic M-16 style with the ramp front sight and the carry handle on top. The Flat Top is very similar but it takes off the handle and replaces it with a Picatinny accessory rail. I'm leaning toward the A3 Flat Top but I was wondering if anybody had opinions. I've already got a couple of 7.62mm/.308 cal units so I was thinking I should get this new one in .223 as is the usual case. Anybody got any opinions on caliber? Yes, I know many people believe that .223 cal is an "underpowered" round. I'm not going to use this as a primary defense weapon. I've got plenty of those. This is going to be, primarily, a target shooter or a hobby gun.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 11-14-2008 11:50 PM                     A .223 rifle round is underpowered? It works a hell of a lot better than most handgun rounds. Unless you have to bring down a 12 point buck, or an elk, or perhaps a moose. As far as rifles go, I'd rather get a really good quality single shot, bolt action hunting rifle. My father has a Winchester Model 70 .300 Magnum. It's very accurate. I'm not very fond of shooting it over the kick. Regarding what the new incoming federal administration will do, it seems that drafting new gun laws (such as reinstating the assault weapons ban or limiting the capacity of handguns) would be down the list of priorities compared to other issues that need more immediate action. I have no plans on buying an assault rifle since they're generally not nearly as accurate as a well made hunting rifle. My concern on gun legislation centers more on things like conceal carry permits. I would probably already be well on the way to having my carry permit (or have it already), but I've been trying to get some sort of "schedule" together where a couple of friends could take the class the same day. One of my closest friends is general manager of a major higher quality chain restaurant. He doesn't get very many Saturdays or Sundays off. And the gun dealers and ranges around here don't hold conceal carry classes every week like clockwork either. Nevertheless, we agree we're going to need to get the classwork done ASAP or risk not having the permit at all. With times getting tougher, robberies and other various crimes are going to be on the rise. Crystal-meth used to be the illegal drug of choice here in Lawton -when users could still make it themselves. The murder of OHP trooper Nik Green on 12/26/2003 not very far from Lawton gave way to laws in Oklahoma and then many other states limiting the sale of pseudoephedrine. Drug addicts can't get their meth so easily. As a result, crack cocaine has been making a comeback. And so have the brazenly stupid acts of criminal mayhem some crack addicts will resort to in order to get money for their next hit. I'm not getting dragged out of my truck and knifed by some base-head for his next hit. He's going to be Mister Bulletcatcher instead.  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-15-2008 01:00 AM                     I have a nice single shot rifle that'll shoot the flies off a cow's ass 100 yds. out. I also have a Ruger 10-22 that I rebuilt from an old receiver and it will shot 10 shots into a group as big as a dime from 50 yds. I've got a .54 cal. Thompson Center flintlock and several other items, too numerous to list. I've been wanting to get an AR-15 for a while. They are good guns to tinker with. If you are careful about your work, you can build an AR-15 that's as accurate as a man can shoot. I like to shoot NRA silhouettes. With my Ruger 10-22, I can shoot 20 out of 40 targets. I expect a well built AR-15 to do at least as well but, instead of being confined to ranges of 50-100 yds., it should be able to do it at 200 yds. or more. I have seen videos of guys using AR-15s to reliably peg targets, 18" in diameter from distances of 500 yds. or more. Granted, an AR-15 is no benchrest gun. I want something that shoots well from the offhand position that I can work on and build up the way I like. I've been looking at ARs for a couple of years, now... Right after I finished the 10-22. If I wanted real accuracy I'd go for a benchrest gun in 6 mm PPC. In terms of protection, I'm not worried. I have what I need to do the job if it ever comes down to it. I keep Tactical Tupperware in the nightstand and, should I need to carry something for protection outside the home, I have at least 3 pieces of hardware to choose from. I hunt, occasionally, and protection is important too but, for the most part I like shooting as a sport for its own sake. There's something satisfying about building up a gun and getting it to shoot just the way you like then taking it out to the range (or the "south forty") and seeing how well you can shoot with it.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 11-15-2008 01:31 AM                     For customizing a rifle, do you have access to a machine shop for creating custom parts? Some folks can use such access to alter a semi-auto device to where it can illegally waste a hell of a lot of ammo very very fast. What sort of "tactical tupperware" do you use? Glocks are very popular -although I don't like the grip angle on them. I have a Springfield Armory XD-40 as my piece of Tupperware (intended for carry purposes). I'm interested in the Heckler and Koch HK-45c as a better choice. I don't have a .45 right now and that could fill the void in the collection. My father is trying to sell me on one of his friend's $5000 NCO .45 pistols. I just don't feel like spending $5000 on a pistol. I'm probably only going to shoot pop bottles, cans and paper targets with the thing. For home defense, I like my "highway patrol" special: the SigSauer P226 chambered in .357 Sig. Picatinny rail and tritium night sights. I have a .40 S&W barrel for it to use for plinking purposes. The .357 round is freaking LOUD. I would really hate to have to fire that thing indoors. And that brings up another thing regarding gun laws. Oklahoma is one of a good number of states where it is legal to own a handgun fitted with a suppressor. The HK-45 and HK-45c can be bought with threaded barrels ready for a suppressor. SigSauer has a P220 Tactical ready for the same thing. It's just a pain in the ass to go through all the paperwork and pay the extra fees to legally own a handgun suppressor.  |  IP: Logged Chad Souder Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 962 From: Waterloo, IA, USA Registered: Feb 2000 posted 11-15-2008 01:21 PM                     Randy - You've only got about 2 billion different combinations possible for your AR, so good luck and have fun with it! My opinion is you want a free floating barrel and a two stage trigger. I also like the A3. For what it sounds like you want to do, I would definitely stick with .223, unless you have a lot of wind in your area. You can make a very nice 400-600 yd rifle with a .223 and your wallet and shoulder will thank you later. Twist rate seems to make a good deal of difference, but the thing about the AR-15 is (as with many things) you can find about a million different opinions on what to go with. The nice thing about what you're doing is that parts are relatively cheap, so if you're not happy with something, you can literally make it an entirely different gun for a hundred bucks. When you get to building your AR-10, however, things will get more expensive. When in doubt, look at what Barrett does on their rifles. They are, in my opinion, the best. I love my Ruger 10-22 as well. That thing is just crazy accurate.  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-15-2008 02:22 PM                     quote: Bobby Henderson What sort of "tactical tupperware" do you use? Glocks are very popular -although I don't like the grip angle on them. Glock 19. 9mm. The grip is not 100% my faveorite either but, from 25 ft. away, I can put 10 shots inside a circle as big as a coffee can lid. 12 Ga. shotgun loaded w/ tactical buckshot under the bed. The stated procedure in this house in case of "emergency" is to retreat up the stairs to the bedroom and close the door. Hunker down behind the bed, get said Tupperware from night stand and lay the shotgun across the bed. Pick up the phone and call 9-1-1. If anybody comes through that door without knocking first, pull the trigger. Though I don't have access to a machine shop directly, I can have things machined if I need to. I'm really not into full-auto machine guns. They're fun to play with for a while but I wouldn't want to own one. Like you said... Waste of perfectly good ammo. I just wouldn't want to modify the AR-15 for full-auto. Not only would I not want to take the risk, I'm just not interested in doing it. I think I'm leaning toward the A3. Thanks for the advice on the freefloat barrel. I did that on the 10-22 but I wouldn't have thought of it for the AR-15. I'm not afraid of a .308/7.62mm. Yes, I wouldn't want to fire one all day long but I've got no problem shooting them. I have one. I use it occasionally but, as you say, the expense of ammo is important to consider. If this project ever gets finished... and what project like this EVER gets finised?... Maybe I can shoot a couple of videos: "AR-15 vs. Xenon Bulb." (Anybody want to donate an old xenon to the cause? )  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 11-16-2008 02:44 AM                     quote: Randy Stankey (Anybody want to donate an old xenon to the cause? ) At the end of the month, I can have a good dozen 2k bulbs that needs to be put to rest...lol  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-16-2008 01:12 PM                     Hmmm... I could do a series: Xenon vs. .177 cal. RWS Diana Air Rifle. Xenon vs. .22 cal. Ruger 10-22. Xenon vs. .223 cal. Ruger Mini-14. Xenon vs. .30-06 ca. Remmington Deer Rifle. Xenon vs. .308 cal. FN-FAL. Xenon vs. .54 cal. Thompson/Center Renegade Flintlock. We could make some real bang-up videos! Literally! How much do you think the postage would be?  |  IP: Logged Paul Mayer Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under! Posts: 3836 From: Albuquerque, NM Registered: Feb 2000 posted 11-16-2008 09:57 PM                        I'll donate my Remington 870 for use in that video (the "don't even have to aim" segment). I too love the Ruger 10-22. And the High Standard Victor. As mentioned above, very accurate, very nice.  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-16-2008 11:06 PM                     How about a xenon bulb shoot? Collect up a whole bunch of bulbs and stand them up at the 50 yd. backstop and charge people a five bucks to shoot at them.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 11-17-2008 02:55 AM                     quote: Randy Stankey How much do you think the postage would be? I've got a few big Christie boxes that 9 bulbs are shipped in, which includes the packing foam. I would say, to be safe, 40 bucks UPS ground...and I take paypal. ..PM me if interested. Thx again, Randy Yet, what is kinda odd is that no matter what shot you take at these things - either with that .177 "BB" gun, or that .54cal "fire stick", they gonna pop real pretty....and no "blue bulbs" either. I even still have an LTI that I'll send to you. Them things are NASTY when they pop due to the thickened quartz and higher pressure in the envelope. Really if you wanna make some horrible noise, is find a way to hook up a rectifier to them, ignite then and when they are white hot, take a poke at them. Get that pressure built up in them -Monte  |  IP: Logged Chad Souder Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 962 From: Waterloo, IA, USA Registered: Feb 2000 posted 11-17-2008 03:04 PM                     Randy - What accessories are you considering?  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-17-2008 09:52 PM                     Chad, I was thinking of just a red dot sight. Maybe one of those holographic ones. I have a 3-10X scope on the 10-22. For silhouettes, that's a bit under power. I was toying with the idea of buying a new one for the 10-22 and putting the old one on the AR-15. It's a mil-dot reticle. Would be perfect for range and windage estimation on the AR. That's what they were designed for. It has parallax set for 100+ yards so it's a bit difficult to shoot if you are shooting from 50 yds. However, since the AR is a 100+ yard gun, it would be more suited for the job. Then I could get a higher power scope for the 10-22 that has an adjustable objective and target knobs for range adjustment. Monte; I'll be sending you an message in the next couple days. BTW: I've got a way to make some noise! Ever heard of what happens when you mix ammonium nitrate and zirconium perchlorate and stir briskly with a bullet?  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 11-18-2008 12:55 AM                     quote: Randy Stankey ammonium nitrate and zirconium perchlorate ..sounds like you wanna create a easy passageway to China though the center of the earth...  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-19-2008 11:31 AM                     Oh... Just small containers! Like a 20 oz. soda bottle full. Most of the time they are even smaller than that. Probably doesn't even come out to 1/2 pound of material. You set up 5 paper targets. The last one has the bottle behind it. You start shooting the targets in order from left to right. Start the stopwatch at the sound of the first shot. Stop the timer when you hear the "KABOOM!" from the last target being hit. The guy with the shortest time wins. You dare not play this game at any distance shorter than 100 yds!  |  IP: Logged

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