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Topic: Everything is Scope this summer

Lyle Romer
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1400
From: Davie, FL, USA
Registered: May 2002

posted 07-14-2007 10:02 PM

I don't know about anybody else but I can't remember there ever being so many scope movies out. There are complexes out there playing all scope. It's kind of ironic after the wall to wall screen craze with common width "optimized" for flat and all the D-cinema installs with lower resolution for scope than flat.

It's like the directors are thumbing their noses at all the people that complain about letterbox on their tv's. Now that widescreen TVs are so common it's like the directors are all saying "you think you won't have letterbox, we'll show you!"

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 07-14-2007 11:28 PM

It's great that The Simpsons Movie is scope after years of seeing the TV show in 1.33. [beer]

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 07-14-2007 11:49 PM

I think this is a good development. Scope is awesome.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 07-15-2007 03:08 AM

..for it's a good incentive to buy 66",1080i, 16:9 plasma TV sets in the future...since digital home TV, and home theatre systems (either DigTV, or DigProjection) are the way of the future now.

.AND with the increase of home systems will and have caused the public to enjoy movies more since they want to see the film in a different prospective than from seeing it at home so thus, it's a win-win situation for studios and TV manufacturers.....and say "goodbye" to FM analog broadcasting..

I look at it as the attempt to return to the grandeur of the motion picture..or should I dare to say "to bring back the MAGIC in the movies?" I know, we've kicked it, slapped it silly, dragged it around until almost dead, stepped on it, and still be in love it to death in the end: the love of 70mm presentations.

Yet with this incease in widescreen presentations, could a few prints be made for 70mm venues?

Besides, film loves shooting through full open SCOPE apertures - gets more light and definition on the screen.

You shoot through a restricted 1.85/1 FLAT aperture and your light output is a bit dimmer (unless, you refocus the bulb for flat presentations, but then, that can be a hassle to constantly refocus per each lens change..).

Also, cinematographers are finding out how easy it is to use Super35 and tell labs to make Scope movies from this format...

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Jennifer Pan
THE JEN!

Posts: 1219
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: Nov 2003

posted 07-15-2007 07:46 AM

Indeed, Scope is very awesome.

[ 07-15-2007, 05:38 PM: Message edited by: Jennifer Pan ]

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 07-15-2007 07:52 AM

quote: Monte L Fullmer
AND with the increase of home systems will and have caused the public to enjoy movies more since they want to see the film in a different prospective than from seeing it at home so thus, it's a win-win situation for studios and TV manufacturers.....and say "goodbye" to FM analog broadcasting..

There's a debate raging here about the analogue switch-off for radio, which was going to be inevitable once the analogue switch-off for TV was underway (the first region of Britain to have its UHF PAL service switched off, leaving DVB-T only, will be Cumbria in October). Apparently FM radio licences have been issued until 2019, but there is already an industry campaign underway to stop issuing any new ones. A lot of the country still doesn't have DAB broadcasting coverage, though. A bigger issue to my mind is that the majority of new cars are still being fitted with analogue radios only: given that around 70% of radio listening is done in cars, and given an average car lifespan of 10 years, that's going to cause a big problem if there is any serious proposal to switch off analogue broadcasting at any time before the late teens.

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005

posted 07-15-2007 10:04 AM

I, for one, applaud the idea of releasing in scope. As Monte stated: It's brighter and sharper than flat even under the best of conditions for flat.

Common width screens are for people with no class.

Off topic:

FM? What's that? (Speaking as a former chief engineer of a 50,000 watt FM station) I've switched to XM: satellite. Others are CD & I-pod.

Unless Clear Channel & others get a new idea (localism & personality) FM is as over as AM. Louis

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 07-15-2007 10:19 AM

quote: Louis Bornwasser
Unless Clear Channel & others get a new idea (localism & personality) FM is as over as AM. Louis

One local FM station run by Cumulus Media (KZEL) had gradually scaled back their local talent and programmed a lot of canned syndicated shows. They stuck with this formula and their ratings went in the toilet. They let it deteriorate to the point where they were filling more airtime with PSAs than with actual commercials.

About 6 months ago they pulled the plug on all the syndicated shows (except on Sunday morning) and put their best remaining talent back on the air. They also changed their music programming from dinosaur rock to a mix of classic rock and newer contemporary music. Their new slogan is "Live and Local". I don't know how they're doing in the ratings but they've signed up a LOT of new advertisers.

This seems like the only way for FM to survive - Live and Local.

And scope is awesome. [Big Grin]

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 07-15-2007 10:23 AM

There was once a big push by the ASC to make the new HDTV standard scope aspect instead of the consortium's actual 16X9, I can remember the articles about them griping about how they'd loose some of the scope image or that it would end up still being letter boxed . Some say its the DP and Directors way to strike back at the HDTV consortium for not making HDTV aspect ratio what the artistic folks (DP's) wanted. The consortium's reasoning back then was that they couldn't make CRT's with scope aspect ratio and that transmission if a scope image would be difficult because of the higher data rates that would be needed were not possible to broadcast over air back then... I guess they didn't have the foresight to think plasma, LCD and that most transmissions were going to come over cable your homes. The standard went with 16X9 which translates closer to 1.85 than it does scope.

Wouldn't it be great if all films were actually in scope... I wonder how many of the summer releases were shot true anamophic and not Super 35...

Mark

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Mark J. Marshall
Film God

Posts: 3188
From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 07-15-2007 10:46 AM

quote: Louis Bornwasser
Common width screens are for people with no class.

I read that line and just had to laugh. Over half of our screens are that way. Don't blame me, though... I didn't design the place, and I complained about it when "they" did design it. I just run the movies.

I love Scope. Especially on a screen wide enough to fit the entire picture. At our theater, we only have one such screen unfortunately. And I second the "Horray!" for Simpsons being in Scope. I've been wondering why they haven't started doing the Simpsons TV show in 16x9 yet.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 07-15-2007 06:44 PM

I hate common width screens in movie theaters. They really do suck.

I also think its unfortunate that 2K digital projector systems have only one lens and utilize fewer native pixels for the 'scope format than the flat format (2048 X 852 versus 1998 X 1080).

It would also suck if everything was released in 'scope as well. There's a lot of comedies, dramas and other types of movies that really do work better in 1.66 and 1.85 formats.

If everything was released in 'scope then there would be nothing special about that format anymore either.

quote:
It's like the directors are thumbing their noses at all the people that complain about letterbox on their tv's. Now that widescreen TVs are so common it's like the directors are all saying "you think you won't have letterbox, we'll show you!"

Not so fast.

Most of those "scope" movies were really only shot in Super35. Not very many features are shot in true anamorphic 'scope. Consequently, the composition in many of those Super35 movies is just bland and safe looking -like the DP is trying to compose for both the theater and home at the same time.

When a movie is shot in anamorphic 35mm the DP and production designer both have to set everything for that format. The anamorphic format forces the director to actually made decisions with the format rather than trying to make one size fit all.

quote: Louis Bornwasser
Unless Clear Channel & others get a new idea (localism & personality) FM is as over as AM.

Right now radio just sucks in general. While XM and Sirius offer much greater variety and uncensored content, I hate the audio quality. I also hate the audio quality of "HD Digital Radio" as well. The marketing guys who adorned the 64kbs and 96kbs audio of that format "HD" need a slap across the face. Who do they think they're kidding?

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Andy Muirhead
Master Film Handler

Posts: 323
From: Galashiels, Scotland
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 07-15-2007 06:55 PM

quote: Leo Enticknap
(the first region of Britain to have its UHF PAL service switched off, leaving DVB-T only, will be Cumbria in October)

Just to clarify, It's the Border TV region, which also includes the Scottish Borders, which is where I live. The ironic thing is that we can't actually receive DAB signals.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 07-15-2007 07:25 PM

yea, got into a bit of a tissle with a small theatre owner's so-called "operations director" that decided that the new 6 screen that they built a bunch of years ago, have 3 houses with common width screens ( <all of 2.00/1> sizes and the other 3 screens are more closer to true scope), where one house runs a 2.00/1 FLAT aperture. I told him that he needs to get a smaller flat lens so the flat image doesn't look so cropped on that 9x18 ft screen with using a better 1.85/1 aperture.

(He just looked at me as if I didn't know what I was talking about ,...)

Then, they had the gall to build another small complex and have two screens with 1.85/1 - common width - screens..and Scope really takes a beating on these screens in as well as defeating the purpose of a widescreen presenation..then have Dolby Digital for sound.. [Eek!]

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 07-15-2007 08:43 PM

Hey the stupidity of this industry shows now bound! Come on...CinemaScope...a format developed to try an improve the movie going experience to keep em in the theatres has been SO dumbed down.

Most are shot Super(Bad)-35 with less resolution than ever (unless you shoot normally on 16mm)...it is then crammed through 1/2-resolution 2K DI...what is left? It only makes sense to make the Scope picture smaller than flat to hide the low-quality Hollywood is putting into Scope features.

Yeah, I know there are some really highly awarded DPs and Directors out there that might take offense at my critques but I've seen the best in Super-35 and while SOME of it is decent...that isn't the rule, it is the exception. This whole Super-35 and 2K DI business is just dumming down the quality of the business.

BTW...there ARE anamorphic lenses for 2K projectors (Christie, Barco, NEC) so you are not forced to not use them. However, remember, with the current status of DCinema...there isn't more resolution in the digital file...it is a 2K file with a lot of black in there. All it really brings is more light for those with constant height masking than merely zooming the lens (the projector pixels also won't get larger, just wider). The anamorphic expansion is much less mild than with film at only 1.25X

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Lyle Romer
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1400
From: Davie, FL, USA
Registered: May 2002

posted 07-15-2007 10:05 PM

As far as I can remember, Transformers is the only one of the "summer of scope" films to be shot in anamorphic. Of course then it went through digital intermediate which I assume was 2k.

Spiderman used some Vistavision for special effects shots according to IMDB.

If they want to shoot scope with spherical lenses they really should (as Bobby suggests a lot) shoot in 65mm with the frame cropped to 2.4:1. They would have a negative that would be usable for any display system that is introduced for probably the next 50 years. I wonder how good a 4k scan of that would look on a 4k d-cinema system. Probably pretty darn impressive (although not as impressive as a 70mm release print).

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