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Author Topic: No smoking ban starts 1st July in UK Ken McFall Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 615 From: Haringey, London. Registered: Apr 2001 posted 06-30-2007 07:32 AM                     As you may be aware the UK goes smoke free as of Sunday 1st July..... a landmark day if ever there was one. There is a lot of talk of the ban killing pubs and bars. I know the US has had such controls in place for a long time now. I'm interested to know when it happened and what effect it had over there. For me personally it's great new's, I've never smoked and don't go out to pubs at all because of the smoke. I also hated smelling like an ash tray in the morning. When it was banned in cinemas and theatres it was feared it would be the end for them and that clearly was not the case. Whats the feeling on here?  |  IP: Logged Jim Bedford Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 597 From: Telluride, CO, USA (733 mi. WNW of Rockwall, TX but it seems much, much longer) Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-30-2007 09:07 AM                        Here in Telluride, our town government banned smoking in most indoor commercial spaces, offices, public meeting areas and government buildings in 1988. Bars were excepted at that time but now all indoor public spaces have been smoke free for almost ten years. Now of course, much of the US is smoke free, especially restaurants, and designated smoking areas are harder to find and smaller as the number of smokers dwindle. (Fewer than 22% of the US adult population smokes today and this figure drops each year.) We're a resort town with a pretty radical population and I have to say (I'm a non-smoker) the only impacts of the law has been positive. There were the same dire predictions of loss of business and fears that other restrictions were close behind, but neither materialized. (Although the town banned open-fire, wood burning fireplaces and stoves around the same time and for some the same health reasons.) Since the bans this region of about 3500 has seen more than two billion dollars of investment dollars come into the area to start businesses, build hotels and homes, as well as public works like a free Gondola, parks, trails, roads, etc. Our community recently condemned 600+ acres just out of town and paid $50Million for it. Telluride acquires Valley Floor Smokers? Please just go outside, in your car or in your own home to poison yourself. Let the rest of us enjoy smoke-free air. "Mind if I smoke?" "No, mind if I fart?" Steve Martin  |  IP: Logged Ken McFall Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 615 From: Haringey, London. Registered: Apr 2001 posted 06-30-2007 10:15 AM                     Scotland has had a no smoking ban for a few years and I've heard very mixed results as to it effect on bussines's The ban extendes to all enclosed public places and work places. Bussinesses are required to provide what are effectivly wall mounted ash trays outside their premises to prevent the build up of fag ends all over the place. It's not been suggested that this is 'the thin edge of the wedge' and that more ban's will follow. It's one of those situations where enforcing my right not to have to suffer the effects of other peopls smoke restricts their right to do so in the first place All in all I think it will be a very positive step but I'm sure there will be many others who will be up in arms. As for farting in public places that would surely be a potential fire hazard. Somewhat minimised by the ban on smoking and the absence of naked flames  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 06-30-2007 10:54 AM                     I would think that it would depend on the type of business as to how a smoking ban would affect it (and in which hours the day). I think the actual statistics are that restaurants saw an increase after such bans took affect since those not desiring smoking exceeded those that wanted to smoke. That is, more people went to restaurants than used to because they are smoke free in excess of those that stopped going because they couldn't smoke. I'm not sure that would be the case in bars/pubs and such...particularlly during the evening hours. I would be interesting to here from bar owners that have a large smoking customer base and hear what happened afterwords. From a cost standpoint...the smoke has to increase the costs of keeping the place clean...planes certainly noted the filter change after smoke-free.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-30-2007 11:20 AM                        Montana went smoke-free in all public buildings except bars in 2004. The bars will go smoke-free next year. Of course this has led to groups of smokers standing around outside their workplaces, smoking. So now companies are instituting their own "no smoking within 100 feet of an entrance" or "No smoking anywhere on our property" rules. I find it amazing that anyone starts smoking nowadays. Never mind the health issues, since all young people are indestructible anyway; but why would you even want such an inconvenient "hobby?"  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-30-2007 11:30 AM                     quote: Ken McFall There is a lot of talk of the ban killing pubs and bars. Well, as in Utaw there may be loopholes in the laws that allow one to join a "club" in which you can smoke. Funny though many of those "club" restaurants here have gone under . Otherwise I'm thankful for the no-smoking laws here in Utaw and when you go to a neighboring state that still allows it you extra thankful you don't have to put up with the stench at home whilst eating out. Oh and it won't affect anyones buisness at all with a nation wide ban except places that sell stuff to smoke. Do you really believe none of those folks won't continue going to the pubs for their pints? You must be joking. Many say if Nevada had similar laws that no one would gamble. I say hogwash...more people would go there than ever before... smokers are after all a minority! Mark  |  IP: Logged Damien Taylor Master Film Handler Posts: 493 From: Perth, Western Australia Registered: Apr 2007 posted 06-30-2007 11:44 AM                     Total indoor smoking bans came in earlier this year in Western Australia. In all honesty, when I'm at a nightclub, I tend to notice how much the place smells now. WA is in the middle of big reforms in our liquor/smoking laws. For example, you may now order alcohol without ordering food in restaurants. Time will tell the effects of these. But the no smoking laws haven't emptied the pubs/clubs here.  |  IP: Logged Ken McFall Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 615 From: Haringey, London. Registered: Apr 2001 posted 06-30-2007 11:56 AM                     I tend to agree that after a short period of sulking things will return to normal. The ban is not just a local ban but a national one so smokers have but two options.... stay at home or go out. Non smokers have always faced that dilema..... but not anymore One cry is going to be the loss of tax revenue if there is a mass quit of smoking. The other side of that is the long term benefit to health and the corresopnding drop in the use of NHS resouces to treat smoking related illness.... and of course death. Not that the NHS tries to treat death!  |  IP: Logged Chad Souder Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 962 From: Waterloo, IA, USA Registered: Feb 2000 posted 06-30-2007 11:56 AM                     I would rather private businesses be allowed to decide what legal activities they do or do not allow on their premises and the patronage or lack there of by the consumer would help them to make that decision. I swear I remember reading the role of government in a book somewhere once.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 06-30-2007 01:28 PM                     Being a non-smoker, I'll grin happily when smoking is finally banned in all commercial businesses including bars. Bring it on! We have one bar in my town that is non-smoking. Not by its own choice either. It had to go non smoking since its main entrance is within a hotel lobby. But going to a non-smoking environment did not kill its business at all. Some customers left, but others starting visiting because it was smoke free. Lots of people have health conditions like asthma where they have to avoid triggers like cigarette smoke. Many of them still enjoy a beer or mixed drink. They are potential customers. Smoking has not been seen as being a cool and attractive practice in a long time. It just isn't fashionable anymore. I'm sure the high and ever rising cost of health care in the United States is another factor driving the negative attitudes against smoking. Here in Oklahoma more than half the smoking population doesn't have health insurance. So when they get lung cancer the hospitals get to eat some of the cost and pass the rest to American tax payers. And then we get higher health care bills. The food industry had better get ready. They're next. Clogged arteries is an even worse, preventable problem than lung cancer. quote: Mike Blakesley I find it amazing that anyone starts smoking nowadays. Never mind the health issues, since all young people are indestructible anyway; but why would you even want such an inconvenient "hobby?" Lots of teens start smoking because they want to be seen as adults. I don't think so many of them would start smoking in the first place if they knew how many of us adults view teen smokers: idiots. Several guys at my work place have quit smoking over the last couple of years. Out of 20 employees we have only a mere handful of smokers left. Most have quit not over the health reasons. A smoking habit is just damned expensive! Some of those guys figured out they were spending $100, $200 or even more per month on the habit. quote: Chad Souder I would rather private businesses be allowed to decide what legal activities they do or do not allow on their premises and the patronage or lack there of by the consumer would help them to make that decision. I swear I remember reading the role of government in a book somewhere once. This is one area where I do not agree with allowing the market to police itself. The market has had many decades to do that already and did nothing but allow anyone to smoke as much as he wanted. One of the driving issues with smoking bans is the health considerations for the employees working in such establishments like restaurants and bars. A non-smoking server working in a restaurant that allows smoking here in Oklahoma was seen to breathe in as much second hand smoke as having a 1-2 pack a day smoking habit. Here in Oklahoma smoking is banned in all offices, public buildings and governmental buildings. Restaurants can allow smoking only if they have a separate smoking area in the building with a separate ventilation system. That costs a lot. So most restaurants simply banned smoking. Bars can still allow smoking, but I'm pretty sure the state law has a time line to snuff out that practice in another couple of years. Overall, the number of smokers in my state has been dropping. Whenever I visit a night club in Oklahoma City or Tulsa I'm kind of surprised by how few people are smoking there. I just wish Lawton was as advanced in that trend.  |  IP: Logged Chris Slycord Film God Posts: 2986 From: 퍼항시, 경상푹도, South Korea Registered: Mar 2007 posted 06-30-2007 01:43 PM                     So it's a "no smoking" ban? So I HAVE to smoke?! Damnit. Here in Washington State smoking is banned within 25 feet of an "open to the public" facility. I love finally being able to go to a bar without having me smell awful when I come home (one of the family members is allergic to smoke). Though, I actually voted against the ban. I think it's wrong for the government to force a private business to do something like this. Hell, there was one bar in a nearby town that already had no smoking.  |  IP: Logged Ken McFall Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 615 From: Haringey, London. Registered: Apr 2001 posted 06-30-2007 02:24 PM                     Hi Chris, that is the dilema who's rights do you support. By definition you support everyones rights but that is impractical. It's a bit like freedom of speach. GREAT principle but in reality you are not allowed to express any thought that might encite a nedative responce. I'm impressed that you voted against something that you really would have enjoyed and benefted from. I have to admit to a sneaky wish to go out on Sunday and visit a pub just to enjoy the cringing of smokers.... but I'll resist. I will add that I had a friend, not a close friend but a friend none the less, he as a drag artist call Dockyard Doris. It conjoures up sooo many images I'm sure. He was a man with a heart of gold called Colin Deverau, he is is missed greatly. I'd seen him perform his act and then he vanished for a few weeks. I found out he was ill and visited him in hospital, a cancer ward! To say I was shocked would be an understatement. In such a short space of time he had deteriorated so much and he didn't want visitors to see him in such a state. For years he had performed in crowded bars placed high up on stage inhaling the smoke, along with the rest of the staff who worked behind the bar. He had no choice but to work in such environments and I'm sure many of the staff faced the same dilema. The need to work to live. This ban will at least remove that threat and give emplyees the right to work in a clean safe environment. The biggest problem with smoke related illness is that it takes so long to show up. There is no compensation available in such circumstances. So I hope smokers out there while feeling marginalised will remember that not everyone has the choice not to visit or work in a place that allowes smoking.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-30-2007 02:42 PM                        In Montana, restaurants can only allow smoking if they derive at least 40% of their revenue from alcohol sales. If they have a bar in a separate room from the restaurant, smoking is allowed in the bar (until fall 2008, when the bars will go smoke free too). A lot of bars in the larger towns are smoke free already. There are no "smoking rooms" or anything of that sort. If you want to light up, you have to go outside. Lots of fun when it's -20 outside and there's a blizzard!  |  IP: Logged Marc Hansen Film Handler Posts: 93 From: Seattle, WA, USA Registered: Dec 2000 posted 06-30-2007 04:25 PM                     The only people taking a hit here in Washington are bars that are near tribal casinos/cardrooms. The tribes don't have to observe the ban and most don't. Marc  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 06-30-2007 05:51 PM                        Similar things happened here in Colorado right before the smoking ban was enacted. Smokers were proclaiming the end of the world, etc. But somehow bars still stayed in business. People still need to get their booze on, I guess. I laugh at smokers. They chose to smoke, and they can take the consequences that go with it, like not being able to smoke wherever they want. Fools. They already feel entitled to special breaks at work to go out and smoke. They can go to hell.  |  IP: Logged

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